Preseason 2018-2019

Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:32 pm

DComeaux wrote:
Ducaholic wrote:




Nothing new. DU will partner with anyone anywhere anytime in the name of conservation.



I assumed such, and sometime regretfully, you have to deal with the devil, especially on the farm bill. I'm guessing waterfowl conservation got tangled up with the farm bill as it would not survive on it's own. I wish this would be separated, or at least better managed then it is now. Money has a blinding effect on those so called non profits.

There are ONLY 12 appropriations bills produced by the 12 appropriations subcommittees. Everything regularly funded goes into one of these 12 and nothing stands on its own.

https://simpson.house.gov/appropriations/12appropriationssubcommittees.htm

That's why it is there. Nowhere else really it could go the way they do business.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:15 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
DComeaux wrote:
Ducaholic wrote:




Nothing new. DU will partner with anyone anywhere anytime in the name of conservation.



I assumed such, and sometime regretfully, you have to deal with the devil, especially on the farm bill. I'm guessing waterfowl conservation got tangled up with the farm bill as it would not survive on it's own. I wish this would be separated, or at least better managed then it is now. Money has a blinding effect on those so called non profits.

There are ONLY 12 appropriations bills produced by the 12 appropriations subcommittees. Everything regularly funded goes into one of these 12 and nothing stands on its own.



https://simpson.house.gov/appropriations/12appropriationssubcommittees.htm

That's why it is there. Nowhere else really it could go the way they do business.


So frustrating. Why couldn't they have just left this alone? Humans screw up everything.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:32 pm

DComeaux wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
DComeaux wrote:
Ducaholic wrote:




Nothing new. DU will partner with anyone anywhere anytime in the name of conservation.



I assumed such, and sometime regretfully, you have to deal with the devil, especially on the farm bill. I'm guessing waterfowl conservation got tangled up with the farm bill as it would not survive on it's own. I wish this would be separated, or at least better managed then it is now. Money has a blinding effect on those so called non profits.

There are ONLY 12 appropriations bills produced by the 12 appropriations subcommittees. Everything regularly funded goes into one of these 12 and nothing stands on its own.



https://simpson.house.gov/appropriations/12appropriationssubcommittees.htm

That's why it is there. Nowhere else really it could go the way they do business.


So frustrating. Why couldn't they have just left this alone? Humans screw up everything.

I wish every thing was funded on a stand alone bases. The problem is that the government has grown so large it is impossible for our representatives to have any clue what is going on. So they bundle everything together and a relatively small number of people have any say in any particular part of any appropriations bill in the best of cases and in the worst, which is why they lately lump everything into omnibus bills after half a year of continuing resolutions, its but a handful that really decide.

This is the problem. Read the bill, why would I read the bill? That's how fucked our system is. This guy should have been laughed out of office for admitting he couldn't read one of the most important bills in generations. So what do you think he does on the appropriation bills?
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:44 pm

Plans are to run the marsh this weekend to go check on the blinds. The guy that we lease from is going to head to the camp with his wife and friends as well and come out with us to run his boat. It's getting close.

The youth hunt application process started today for White Lak and I'm having a young man to fill out and send in the form. I hope he get's drawn. The only downside is it'll give me just one day the weekend before the season to get things ready at the blind.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Rick » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:36 am

DComeaux wrote:The youth hunt application process started today for White Lak and I'm having a young man to fill out and send in the form. I hope he get's drawn...


I would have thought Blake aged out, but suppose if he wears his Cowardly Lion costume...
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:51 am

Rick wrote:
DComeaux wrote:The youth hunt application process started today for White Lak and I'm having a young man to fill out and send in the form. I hope he get's drawn...


I would have thought Blake aged out, but suppose if he wears his Cowardly Lion costume...



HA! He's way past anything youth.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:16 am

Canada may be implementing this for the 2019-2020 season after a couple of years of comment and research from the waterfowl hunters, biologists and others involved with waterfowl in that country. This explains, or defines what would be legal under standing crops, and if a crop uses water in its growing process, it would be legal, such as second crop rice. I think we need to copy and paste this for ourselves.

Issue 2: Bait and Agricultural Operations
The Regulations currently allow the intentional flooding (i.e., deliberate modification) of a
standing agricultural crop for the purpose of attracting and hunting migratory birds within it
(i.e., not 400 metres from it). While this practice is uncommon, it does occur. It results in
inconsistency in the prohibitions within the bait restrictions set out in subsection 14(1) of the
Regulations. For example, a hunter is not allowed to hunt within 400 metres of where bait has
been deposited in water, but is allowed to hunt where bait is present in an intentionally
flooded standing cornfield. As mentioned previously, the presence of food in a specific area
attracts and concentrates a large number of birds. If this specific area is located on private
land, the opportunity to harvest migratory birds would be limited to a select group of hunters,
thereby creating a situation of unequal access to migratory birds among hunters.
6
It is proposed that any deliberate modification of an agricultural crop that is not part of
normal recognized agricultural practices should be considered baiting. For example, grain
crops (corn, wheat, oats, barley, buckwheat, sunflowers, millet, etc.) and legume crops (e.g.,
soy beans, peas, beans, etc.) do not require flooding to grow or harvest and therefore any
deliberate flooding of these crops would be considered baiting. Conversely, cranberries (RICE)
require flooding to harvest and therefore this would be recognized as a normal agricultural
practice and not be considered baiting.

The recommended option going forward is to prohibit the deliberate modification of an
agricultural crop that is not part of normal recognized agricultural practices for the purpose
of attracting migratory birds for hunting (see Table 2). Subsection 14(6) of the Regulations
would be amended to reflect this policy change and would consider the following to be areas
where bait has been deposited:
1. A standing grain or legume crop that is deliberately flooded to attract migratory birds
for hunting (e.g., flooding a cornfield by using a water pump, plugging a drain tile, using
stop logs in a culvert, or diverting water onto the field).
2. A crop that is deliberately unharvested, partially harvested, knocked down or left on
the ground, whether flooded or not, for the purpose of attracting migratory birds for
hunting (e.g., deliberately unharvesting the centre rows of a cornfield).
3. Grains or legumes that are deliberately deposited on the ground for the purpose of
attracting migratory birds for hunting (e.g., deliberately dumping corn in a field).
It is not proposed to prohibit the hunting of migratory birds in areas where bait is present
due to normal recognized agricultural practices.

Consequently, the Regulations would not
consider the following situations as areas where bait has been deposit:
1. A standing crop to be harvested or in the process of being harvested (e.g., sunflower
or cornfield).
2. A standing crop that is naturally flooded (e.g., standing corn left unharvested in a low
lying area of a field due to flooding from rain).
3. A harvested crop that is flooded, naturally or deliberately.
4. Crops properly shocked in the field where they grow.
5. Areas where grain is scattered solely as a result of normal agricultural or harvesting
operations (e.g., corn spilt during combining, trampling of barley on the headlands of
a field, grain spilt from a gravity wagon in transit).
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:31 am

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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:48 am

Duck Engr wrote:Sounds like the Canadians have put a lot of thought into it. Surprises me that this is seen as an issue up there with as much dry field hunting as they do up there.

It's not done that's why they can do this.

The Regulations currently allow the intentional flooding (i.e., deliberate modification) of a standing agricultural crop for the purpose of attracting and hunting migratory birds within it (i.e., not 400 metres from it). While this practice is uncommon, it does occur.


Of course, you just switch to rice and go on as you always did.

The interesting thing is that switching from corn to rice or creating "natural" wetlands will hold a lot more than just mallards. In general mallards make up smaller fractions of the ducks harvested as you move south, they are the dominant species attracted to flooded corn. It will never happen in the U.S., but if it did, those with the money to plant and flood corn are not going to simply give up the good thing they have. They will jump through the legal loopholes and it might end up holding up other species as well. Especially when you add in aerators or warm water discharges to keep the water open.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:34 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
Duck Engr wrote:Sounds like the Canadians have put a lot of thought into it. Surprises me that this is seen as an issue up there with as much dry field hunting as they do up there.
It's not done that's why they can do this.



Maybe not so much by the citizens of that country, but I read where some Americans are bringing this baiting scenario up there. I have no idea why anyone would need to do that up there, other than to try to hold them as long as they can. They're already as tame as kittens, and the young are plentiful.


SpinnerMan wrote:
The Regulations currently allow the intentional flooding (i.e., deliberate modification) of a standing agricultural crop for the purpose of attracting and hunting migratory birds within it (i.e., not 400 metres from it). While this practice is uncommon, it does occur.


Of course, you just switch to rice and go on as you always did.

The interesting thing is that switching from corn to rice or creating "natural" wetlands will hold a lot more than just mallards. In general mallards make up smaller fractions of the ducks harvested as you move south, they are the dominant species attracted to flooded corn. It will never happen in the U.S., but if it did, those with the money to plant and flood corn are not going to simply give up the good thing they have. They will jump through the legal loopholes and it might end up holding up other species as well. Especially when you add in aerators or warm water discharges to keep the water open.


I'm not sure rice would fair very well in those northern latitudes, and I don't think it's as "hot" of crop as corn. These flooded fields we're talking about have been around for a long time, that hasn't changed. What has changed is the standing, unharvested, flooded crops. This is the holding factor.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:58 pm

DComeaux wrote:I'm not sure rice would fair very well in those northern latitudes

There is a ton of wild rice in northern latitudes in certain places.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/trade/globaltrade/agrifood/commodity/wild_rice.html
The long, warm summer days and the clean waters characteristic of Manitoba provide ideal growing conditions for long grain, good flavored wild rice.

Sunlight, essential to the growth of wild rice, is in abundant supply during Manitoba's growing season when we receive approximately 16 hours each day.

Manitoba's pristine lakes, streams and rivers in our wild rice production areas, are generally free from herbicides, pesticides and other chemicals thus providing excellent growing conditions for wild rice.

Due to these conditions, Manitoba is able to provide the world with top-quality, full flavoured wild rice.


DComeaux wrote: What has changed is the standing, unharvested, flooded crops. This is the holding factor.

Corn is just a bit easier and cheaper. Wild rice, as the name implies, is a natural crop up north.

https://www.fws.gov/refuge/Rice_Lake/wildlife_and_habitat/index.html
Did you know that Rice Lake National Wildlife Refuge holds the Minnesota record for the most waterfowl observed in one location at one time? In October 1994, more than one million ducks were observed, and most of them were ring-necked ducks.

Ring-necked ducks breed and nest along the forested wetlands of the boreal region of Canada . During their fall migration, huge flocks stop to feed and rest in the wild rice beds in Rice Lake. The best time to view large numbers of ring-necked ducks at the refuge is usually during the second and third weeks of October. Average peak numbers are 70,000 to 100,000 ducks!

My point is while not as hot for mallards, they are hotter for many other species. People willing to invest the kind of money it takes to run a flooded corn operation are not simply going to do nothing. What is the annual cost of 100 acres of flooded corn? Just the lost revenue is around $80,000 per year. $4/bushel * 200 bushels/acre * 100 acres = $80,000. So when you figure in all the other costs, they are spending huge money. So either they are going to spend it doing what they are doing, but just doing it different to be legal. If they can't do that, they will simply lease up all the good land. You think lease prices are high. What do you think these people would spend on a good lease if you succeed and kill their property?

I don't see anyway this helps the ordinary guy. There is a reason so many people want to be rich. It just opens up a world of opportunities that those that are not do not have.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:45 pm

This was neat read from 1967. Especially the "how to" on rice field hunting.

LA1.jpg

LA 2.jpg
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Darren » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:00 pm

Very cool, thanks for sharing
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:55 pm

YA'LL COME GO WITH ME. If ya got something on ya mind bring it with ya.

Paradise Louisiana

Louisiana Wildlife Federation sponsors waterfowl talk on Oct. 10 at Main Library

All aspects of waterfowl habitat, populations, and hunting regulations will be covered in an Oct. 10 program at the Main Library, Room 102, on Goodwood Blvd. in Baton Rouge. The presentation by Larry Reynolds, Waterfowl Program Manager for the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, will begin at 6:30 and is open to the public.

Mr. Reynolds, a duck hunter since age 15 when he first hunted in his home state of California and a resident of Louisiana since 1989, will speak with a Power Point presentation about the most recent waterfowl population and migration trends, including details on species that are increasing and decreasing in numbers, changes in hunting regulations for the upcoming season, and any new information that comes out of the Mississippi Flyway meeting which will take place prior to October 10.

Mr. Reynolds obtained his BS in Wildlife Biology at the University of California at Davis and did post-graduate work at Texas A&M and LSU.

The program is sponsored by the Waterfowl Committee of the Louisiana Wildlife Federation. For more information, contact Charles Williams at 225-250-8623.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:17 pm

They are going to turn the whole flyway into a sanctuary.

https://www.deltafarmpress.com/disappointed-ducks-unlimited
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:58 pm

This was a forum conversation from 2010 between some DU guys and someone who wasn't revealed.

Mike DU, So I was wrong about Missouri?!?:no

Well, went and did some research and found a few thangs from a book printed in 1964 by the USFWS titled "Waterfowl Tomorrow", but before I blog some excerpts let me post some comments from your Bossman Dale Humburg taken off the article "Heading South for the Winter" and printed last summer in Outdoor Life magazine.

"A perception exists that there have major changes in the timing and distribution of migrating waterfowl",says Humburg."There have been some changes in distribution due to habitat and landscape changes, and some changes to migration due to a general warming trend, but whether those short term changes translate to long term changes remain to be seen".

Now...let's take some perceptions from biologists 50 plus years ago. Wording from these men has been shortened, but the point is made just the same...

"The Canada Goose, more than any other waterfowl, respond readily to management of habitat. Horicon NWR, for example, started from scratch and built up a fall population exceeding 100,000 in less than 20 years. Other developments, most notably Crab Orchard NWR in Illinois gained sharply in numbers at the same time that Southern States were reporting a drastic decline. The implication was that the birds were SHORTSTOPPED by attractive habitat developments".-Mississippi Flyway chapter, Arthur S. Hawkins author.(Note: This was the first time I has ever seen the word shortstopped used. I read this in 1971.)

"The Eastern Prairie Population of Interior Canadas migrate through Western Ontario, Western Minnesota, Iowa, and congregating in large numbers at Swan Lake NWR and nearby Fountain Grove Management Area in north-central Missouri. A major portion of these birds now winter at the Swan Lake Refuge and the remainder move south to the Texas-Louisiana coast. While it is difficult to determine the size of this entire group, 130,000 have been recorded at the Swan Lake Refuge." Honkers Large and Small chapter, Harry Hansen and Harvey K. Nelson authors(Note: Louisiana canceled their Canada Goose season in 1971 when the Interior Canadas wintering there was less than 2,000. Only until the lesser Canadas moved eastward from Texas did they have a return to a Canada season. That was 1991.)

"Lesser Snow Geese leave their staging area after mid October in a spectacular mass migration to the coastal marshes of Louisiana, always arriving between October 22 and November 1. Along major flights lanes, wildlife managers have had some success in stopping these birds for brief periods. In a few places, such as Sqauw Creek NWR in Missouri, wintering flocks have become established." Again, Mississippi Flyway chapter, Arthur S. Hawkins author.(Note: Missouri now ranks next to Louisiana towards the numbers of wintering lesser Snow Geese.)

"The canny greenhead invariably is the first duck to discard tradition and tailor his habits to changing times. Today he is the duck most generally associated with corn, although authorities in 1918 and 1930 did not mention corn as an important food for mallards. Midwestern hunter recently told me he never seen mallards feeding in corn until mechanical pickers were used.
A big drake mallard can eat up to 400 kernels of corn in one meal. Corn comprised more than 26% by volume of the total fall foods of more than a thousand mallards in Missouri one year.
Like many of the geese, mallards have altered their migration and wintering patterns to coincide with the immense new food supply. Great concentrations of mallards now tarry on northern waters until late winter. They cruise out from these resting areas to feed in cornfields at every point of the compass. Some mallards fly more than 40 miles to the feeder fields and descend in cloud like flocks on picked croplands". The Cornfielders chapter,John Madsen author.(Note: Dave Carty, freelance writer for Wildfowl Magazine,wrote Grand Pass WA near Marshall, Missouri winters 250,000 mallards on 5,000 acres of flooded corn. In the same proximity, Swan Lake NWR winters 180,000 on 12,000 acres.)

Now Mike DU, do I believe Ducks Unlimited is responsible for shortstopping? No...but these ATTRACTIVE HABITAT DEVELOPMENTS made by federal and state managers do have DU projects in the same vicinity. Do I think such projects should have not been done? Of course they should be implemented, but THE FACT IS when one project is found to be successful along the Mississippi Flyway, somewhere south( and that being The Bayou State) is going to see a decline of some sort.

The late Robert Helm, asked by Louisiana lawmakers in 2003 to do such, did a statewide tour seminar explaining to disgruntled duck hunters of some of the facts behind the decline of waterfowl in our state. One fact he pointed to was the band returns and the northerly trend it had shown for the last 10 years.

Just for saying as well, in conversation with rice farmers and MoDoc personnel around Sikeston, Missouri (the "Bootheel" portion losing vast acreage as you blogged previously), it is agreed that it will be the next Stuggart as for the amount of wintering waterfowl.:cool:
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Darren » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:57 am

DComeaux wrote:YA'LL COME GO WITH ME. If ya got something on ya mind bring it with ya.

Paradise Louisiana

Louisiana Wildlife Federation sponsors waterfowl talk on Oct. 10 at Main Library

All aspects of waterfowl habitat, populations, and hunting regulations will be covered in an Oct. 10 program at the Main Library, Room 102, on Goodwood Blvd. in Baton Rouge. The presentation by Larry Reynolds, Waterfowl Program Manager for the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, will begin at 6:30 and is open to the public.

Mr. Reynolds, a duck hunter since age 15 when he first hunted in his home state of California and a resident of Louisiana since 1989, will speak with a Power Point presentation about the most recent waterfowl population and migration trends, including details on species that are increasing and decreasing in numbers, changes in hunting regulations for the upcoming season, and any new information that comes out of the Mississippi Flyway meeting which will take place prior to October 10.

Mr. Reynolds obtained his BS in Wildlife Biology at the University of California at Davis and did post-graduate work at Texas A&M and LSU.

The program is sponsored by the Waterfowl Committee of the Louisiana Wildlife Federation. For more information, contact Charles Williams at 225-250-8623.


Come on with it, I can probably make it.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Rick » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:24 am

DComeaux wrote:They are going to turn the whole flyway into a sanctuary.


Saw it on the internet, must be true.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:00 am

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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:41 am




Corrected my spoon spelling. I do remember the reasoning behind Olly cutting the edit time, but it would sure be nice to have a longer edit time, especially for this coon ass.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Ducaholic » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:06 am

I'm planning on attending. Should be a good meeting to sit and watch what transpires.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Ducaholic » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:09 am

Not sure where Mike Checkett ended up. He was a rising star within DU on the TV show and all that and then poof he disappeared.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Rick » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:01 am

Something from Idaho to make your morning:

https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-conten ... /H0528.pdf

LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF IDAHO Sixty-fourth Legislature Second Regular Session - 2018 IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
HOUSE BILL NO. 528 BY RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION COMMITTEE
1 AN ACT 2 RELATING TO FISH AND GAME; AMENDING CHAPTER 11, TITLE 36,

IDAHO CODE, BY 3 THE ADDITION OF A NEW SECTION 36-1111, IDAHO CODE,
TO PROHIBIT FIELD 4 FLOODING IN FIELDS WITH STANDING CROPS FOR THE PURPOSE OF WATERFOWL 5 HUNTING ON AGRICULTURAL LANDS, TO PROVIDE FOR VIOLATIONS AND TO PROVIDE 6 A PENALTY.
7 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Idaho: 8 SECTION 1.
That Chapter 11, Title 36, Idaho Code, be, and the same is 9 hereby amended by the addition thereto of a NEW SECTION, to be known and des10 ignated as Section 36-1111, Idaho Code, and to read as follows: 11 36-1111.
WATERFOWL HUNTING -- FIELD FLOODING -- STANDING CROPS -- PRO12 HIBITED. No person shall cause any field with a standing crop to be flooded 13 for the purpose of waterfowl hunting on agricultural lands. A violation of 14 the provisions of this section shall constitute an in infraction subject to this code

'Course, whether it will pass there, much less elsewhere is a whole 'nother matter.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:03 am

Dave, just thinking of your call last evening makes me smile. Been a while since I talked to anyone seeing so many birds they just had to tell someone. Be interested in hearing what you learn from Scooter about it.
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Re: Preseason 2018-2019

Postby DComeaux » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:30 pm

Rick wrote:Dave, just thinking of your call last evening makes me smile. Been a while since I talked to anyone seeing so many birds they just had to tell someone. Be interested in hearing what you learn from Scooter about it.


It was quite amazing. I'm still waiting on a reply.
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