gila-river wrote:Great, now the cops want to install dishwashers to. Just do your job Red and stop encroaching on our rights to replace appliances. That is not the responsibility of police.:lol:
banknote wrote:I was pretty nervous about the whole thing, a lot of people get so worked up about it, but so far it's going well. Following Bill Tarrant's and Mike Gould's teachings on table with toe hitch. Spent first few days having fun on the table, running through OB up there, jumping up and back down, and just telling him how wonderful he is. Now he can't wait to jump right up there, has no resistance to the cords and being short tied. Just started pressure with the toe hitch a few days ago and he's still enthusiastic about it. He's holding well and we always finish with him holding while I undo the hitch and cords, then hop him down to deliver at heel. I anticipate some rough spots as we transition to longer reaches (I still have to put it in his mouth sometimes, but he's reaching some too) and then to the ground, etc., but it's been a relief, so far, to not have had any real struggle to contend with.
Of course now that I've written this, our next session is sure to be contentious, but I hope not.
Olly wrote:banknote wrote:I was pretty nervous about the whole thing, a lot of people get so worked up about it, but so far it's going well. Following Bill Tarrant's and Mike Gould's teachings on table with toe hitch. Spent first few days having fun on the table, running through OB up there, jumping up and back down, and just telling him how wonderful he is. Now he can't wait to jump right up there, has no resistance to the cords and being short tied. Just started pressure with the toe hitch a few days ago and he's still enthusiastic about it. He's holding well and we always finish with him holding while I undo the hitch and cords, then hop him down to deliver at heel. I anticipate some rough spots as we transition to longer reaches (I still have to put it in his mouth sometimes, but he's reaching some too) and then to the ground, etc., but it's been a relief, so far, to not have had any real struggle to contend with.
Of course now that I've written this, our next session is sure to be contentious, but I hope not.
I never understood why people both get upset about it and why you sometimes meet hunters who "never felt like their dog needed FFing". People without a force fetched dog are missing out.
My dog took to it like any other step in the training and loved and still loves to get up on the table whenever we do refreshers. I'm glad to see it's going as well for you as it did me. I went into it very nervous but my fears were quickly dismissed after seeing how well my dog handled the pressure and how fast he understood what I was trying to do, which is what FF is all about.
I used the Smart Fetch method by Even Graham.
one2many wrote:your table is perfect.most guys dont make them that nice.
great looking dog too
one2many wrote:what???? i dont care who FFs or CCs but to say that is just fucking stupid
AKPirate wrote:The sins of Boot and Gaddy are causing the Cali drought and knowing they have no limits to their depravity... :mrgreen:
AKPirate wrote:The sins of Boot and Gaddy are causing the Cali drought and knowing they have no limits to their depravity... :mrgreen:
Bootlipkiller wrote:My dogs were trains in Chinese so blind partners don't fuck them up.
banknote wrote:We hunted this season and he's very enthusiastic about going and getting birds, just not so tuned into bringing them directly to me every time, and when he does he usually drops them. I never really corrected him because I wanted to keep the enthusiasm up, so I often had to go out of the blind to get him to bring the bird, or even go over to where ever he decided to drop and sniff/lick it. In the next 4-6 weeks I hope to have solved all of that.
banknote wrote:Bootlipkiller wrote:My dogs were trains in Chinese so blind partners don't fuck them up.
Good idea, really.
I made the mistake of using "OK" as a release word. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb... Now I have to train myself not to say OK, except to release him, and I'm not taking well to the program.
AKPirate wrote:The sins of Boot and Gaddy are causing the Cali drought and knowing they have no limits to their depravity... :mrgreen:
Bootlipkiller wrote:banknote wrote:Bootlipkiller wrote:My dogs were trains in Chinese so blind partners don't fuck them up.
Good idea, really.
I made the mistake of using "OK" as a release word. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb... Now I have to train myself not to say OK, except to release him, and I'm not taking well to the program.
I made the same mistake but luckily was able to retrain sprig to send using his name. But that can be a problem also.
Rick wrote:Unless you're going to use force-to (pile, water, whatever) follow-on methods, it's no great strain to gain everything FF offers before the pup is old enough for traditional FF. And I've found no need for those follow-ons, either. Might not be "stupid" to believe otherwise, but it is ignorant, in the politest sense of the word, of course.
banknote wrote:Rick wrote:Unless you're going to use force-to (pile, water, whatever) follow-on methods, it's no great strain to gain everything FF offers before the pup is old enough for traditional FF. And I've found no need for those follow-ons, either. Might not be "stupid" to believe otherwise, but it is ignorant, in the politest sense of the word, of course.
I don't doubt this, but I failed to make these gains prior to hunting season, then decided to back way off on retriever training while hunting was going on. At the same time I found that some OB was faltering and focused back on that for a while. He's much more solid on OB now, and I've learned how to be more patient and less forceful in training. Thus far I've had to apply very little pressure in FF, though I realize this may change. I blame myself for every setback and figure if he ends up a great hunting dog, it will be despite all of my ham-handed mistakes. I'm taking the FF slow and keeping it positive, framing it with easy and enthusiastically praised OB work. May be next dog I'll have it together enough early on to not need it at this stage of the game.
Rick wrote:banknote wrote:Rick wrote:Unless you're going to use force-to (pile, water, whatever) follow-on methods, it's no great strain to gain everything FF offers before the pup is old enough for traditional FF. And I've found no need for those follow-ons, either. Might not be "stupid" to believe otherwise, but it is ignorant, in the politest sense of the word, of course.
I don't doubt this, but I failed to make these gains prior to hunting season, then decided to back way off on retriever training while hunting was going on. At the same time I found that some OB was faltering and focused back on that for a while. He's much more solid on OB now, and I've learned how to be more patient and less forceful in training. Thus far I've had to apply very little pressure in FF, though I realize this may change. I blame myself for every setback and figure if he ends up a great hunting dog, it will be despite all of my ham-handed mistakes. I'm taking the FF slow and keeping it positive, framing it with easy and enthusiastically praised OB work. May be next dog I'll have it together enough early on to not need it at this stage of the game.
Please know I'm not knocking FF, just pointing out that it is a path, not The One True Path. If I were a pro working with whatever baggage came through my gate, I would likely FF, as it's an expeditious way to lay some important foundations. By the same token, if I were a trialer putting a dog through high mental pressure training, I might very well want the momentum maintenance the force-tos apparently afford. Also think it also makes great sense in your position.
Been watching FF evolve for decades and it's been on quite a journey that saw some very dark times, but it's coming around.
Olly wrote:one2many wrote:what???? i dont care who FFs or CCs but to say that is just fucking stupid
You don't agree that FFing a dog improves the dog? If not why did you FF your dog?
I've met lots of guys that feel they don't need to FF a dog because it goes and get's the duck most of the time. I was simply saying that because of whatever reason they aren't taking that important step in training it's causing them to miss out on how much better their dog could be (at retrieving).
Don't get so butt hurt over something so small.
banknote wrote:Since then of course both FF and e-collars have become the norm. These two things have also made it so that just about any dog that isn't brain damaged can be conditioned to do whatever the hell you want them to. Has this caused a shift in breeding, possibly, whether conscious or not, toward more drive while leaving a biddable temperament to chance? It's easier to shut a dog down than to speed him up, so start them up fast and force/electrocute them down to a manageable level; is this where it's gone? Was it not once that only a few pups in a litter would really amount to much of a gun dog, and now every single one of them is expected to?
Tomkat wrote:Olly wrote:one2many wrote:what???? i dont care who FFs or CCs but to say that is just fucking stupid
You don't agree that FFing a dog improves the dog? If not why did you FF your dog?
I've met lots of guys that feel they don't need to FF a dog because it goes and get's the duck most of the time. I was simply saying that because of whatever reason they aren't taking that important step in training it's causing them to miss out on how much better their dog could be (at retrieving).
Don't get so butt hurt over something so small.
Olly, not trying to start shit (for once) but would you mind explaining your statement to me? My dog has always been a solid retriever. Please tell me about what makes it an important step. Never FF'd, although a lot of people believe in it. If anything I have the opposite problem, stopping her from retrieving. Sunday was her birthday, turned 4 and is starting to enter her prime hunting years.
stopping her from retrieving? As in she breaks?Tomkat wrote:Olly wrote:one2many wrote:what???? i dont care who FFs or CCs but to say that is just fucking stupid
You don't agree that FFing a dog improves the dog? If not why did you FF your dog?
I've met lots of guys that feel they don't need to FF a dog because it goes and get's the duck most of the time. I was simply saying that because of whatever reason they aren't taking that important step in training it's causing them to miss out on how much better their dog could be (at retrieving).
Don't get so butt hurt over something so small.
Olly, not trying to start shit (for once) but would you mind explaining your statement to me? My dog has always been a solid retriever. Please tell me about what makes it an important step. Never FF'd, although a lot of people believe in it. If anything I have the opposite problem, stopping her from retrieving. Sunday was her birthday, turned 4 and is starting to enter her prime hunting years.
gila-river wrote:Great, now the cops want to install dishwashers to. Just do your job Red and stop encroaching on our rights to replace appliances. That is not the responsibility of police.:lol:
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