Pedigree

[Eric Haynes]

Your right every dog is different. And each breed has common character traits that are present in most but not all dogs of that breed. Just agreeing with banknote on his observation that in his experience you don't need a e collar for golden's.

I don't think Goldie uses one on his training on the pit either. They are just natural biters.

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[Bootlipkiller]

Your right every dog is different. And each breed has common character traits that are present in most but not all dogs of that breed. Just agreeing with banknote on his observation that in his experience you don't need a e collar for golden's.

I don't think Goldie uses one on his training on the pit either. They are just natural biters.

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Some of the sweetest dogs I've ever met are pits.

[Tomkat]

I think Golden's are about as nice a temperament as you can get in a dog. I bet they can be trained to be great hunting dogs.

I love my dog. The e collar turned her from being an ok meat dog to a really good retriever in about 10 days. I had a thorough and solid base to build on before I introduced the collar. The collar gave her a reason to care about what I wanted ALL the time. I seldom ever nic her now. She is very much conditioned to do things my way.

Jarbos dog is a lot like Brandy. They both have big motors and good instincts. They both want to please their masters. And both of them mind a hell of a lot better when they are wearing their collars.


Sent from an undisclosed location in central Kansas.

[Redbeard]

Your right every dog is different. And each breed has common character traits that are present in most but not all dogs of that breed. Just agreeing with banknote on his observation that in his experience you don't need a e collar for golden's.

I don't think Goldie uses one on his training on the pit either. They are just natural biters.

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Some of the sweetest dogs I've ever met are pits.

it's a ploy

[Redbeard]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a dog who is properly conditioned isn't supposed to know where the nic or stimulation is coming from

[assateague]

Sort of like throwing a pillow at your kid when they're misbehaving across the room.

[Eric Haynes]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a dog who is properly conditioned isn't supposed to know where the nic or stimulation is coming from

No, you want the dog to know you are the one nicking them.

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[assateague]

You'd think they would put 2 and 2 together, since they hear you say "SONOFABITCH" immediately before they feel it.

[Goldfish]

Your right every dog is different. And each breed has common character traits that are present in most but not all dogs of that breed. Just agreeing with banknote on his observation that in his experience you don't need a e collar for golden's.

I don't think Goldie uses one on his training on the pit either. They are just natural biters.

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Some of the sweetest dogs I've ever met are pits.

That dumbass would just look around to see who is biting his neck for him bite back. He's such a lug head that I could turn the collar up to ten and he'd brush it off. I don't even use 2 for my softie lab.

sent from a phancy fone

[Redbeard]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a dog who is properly conditioned isn't supposed to know where the nic or stimulation is coming from

No, you want the dog to know you are the one nicking them.

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I'd like to hear a pro's take on this. I'm curious. I suppose if you continue to use or hunt with the collar it may not matter.

Matt what say you?

[Eric Haynes]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a dog who is properly conditioned isn't supposed to know where the nic or stimulation is coming from

No, you want the dog to know you are the one nicking them.

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I'd like to hear a pro's take on this. I'm curious. I suppose if you continue to use or hunt with the collar it may not matter.

Matt what say you?

When you correct your dog with a lead, your dog knows it is you. An ecollar is an extension to that lead. They need to know it is you giving the corrections. I'm no pro, but I know how to use a collar.

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[Redbeard]

Sorry for questioning you Eric. Wont happen again. I stand corrected

[Eric Haynes]

Sorry, on a phone. Wasnt trying to come off like that.

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[Redbeard]

I'm messing with ya

[Eric Haynes]

I think we're slowly getting our duck hunting friends to come in, I've been working on things behind the scenes with the forum. Tonight I'll get the mail server setup so users have to register by having a link sent to their emails first. This will allow me to protect the board from spammers and keep a email record of people that sign up.

If anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Also, I'd still like to hear Josh or Matts answer, as everyone has a little different opinion. I used the collar as a "surprise" like you stated once. Pup was climbing over the wood pile and getting over the fence so I put the collar on her and waited all day for her to get on the pile. She did and I hit her pretty good with it...much higher than anything for training. She has never done it again, but I know it was improper.

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[banknote]

I think we're slowly getting our duck hunting friends to come in, I've been working on things behind the scenes with the forum. Tonight I'll get the mail server setup so users have to register by having a link sent to their emails first. This will allow me to protect the board from spammers and keep a email record of people that sign up.

If anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Also, I'd still like to hear Josh or Matts answer, as everyone has a little different opinion. I used the collar as a "surprise" like you stated once. Pup was climbing over the wood pile and getting over the fence so I put the collar on her and waited all day for her to get on the pile. She did and I hit her pretty good with it...much higher than anything for training. She has never done it again, but I know it was improper.

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From what little I've gathered, this is the same approach to snakes, in which case I think it makes sense.

[Redbeard]

Eric...thats kind of my argument. What happens when she goes for the wood pile without the collar when you're not around?

[Eric Haynes]

Eric...thats kind of my argument. What happens when she goes for the wood pile without the collar when you're not around?

My guess is that she wont climb it again because of the fear of getting lightning sent through her. When training, a correction should only be given after a failed command.

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[Goldfish]

You are training them to not do things. If they do something and out of nowhere they get a negative (shocked), they will stop doing it. If they know you are doing it, they'll stop doing it when you are around. I think it depends on the situation though which you are looking for. Keeping them off a wood pile, surprise them. Disobeying your command, let them know it's you.

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[jehler]

Chach got an ecollar after he became a retard, didn't need one before, ecollar are are for lazy trainers that are control freaks. I have one now for chach to protect home from being stupid, he has no memory from day to day when it comes to all but the most basic ob

[Matt Duncan]

It's vital to teach first then polish with the collar. If you collar condition properly the dog will know that the stimulation is coming from you. For example, when doing force to pile most dogs will learn to flare (or run a big banana type line to the pile) this usually results from too many sends with pressure without enough freebies. But reguardless they will flare because they are associating the collar pressure with that line you burned them on resulting in the dog trying to outsmart the trainer by simply running around the pressure. So yes dogs do associate the stim with a place and not the correction that you are trying to get in. By burning the dog without it being properly CCd will not give you favorable results, for all the dog knows that spot he just stepped on did it or even worse the bird or bumper did it. If you are following an ecollar program the whole point is making it clear to the dog that you are in control all the time and anywhere they may be. Also there is a lot more to the ecollar than just making a correction. If you want a dog that is actually finished and a fine tuned machine in all aspects of its work that dog has to be taught how to work through and with pressure. Pressure isn't just collar stim it's everything that you do, your voice, the heeling stick, your body language, the lead and ecollar and it goes on and on I'm sure you get the point.. Something to think about while ccing your dog, force fetching and moving into pile work... If you want the full benefit of that ecollar you really have to look out at the big picture. Another good rule of thumb to follow is if you have to think about pushing the button chances are you probably shouldn't.

[Matt Duncan]

You are training them to not do things.

sent from a phancy fone

I look at it the exact opposite I guess. I'm training to get a positive response. Very very rarely do I say no and give collar correction.if I am yelling no at the dog then I haven't done my job well enough of teaching that particular task making it unfair to the dog to give him stimulation. I'm conditioning the dog using to collar to get them to perform favorable tasks not using it to keep the dog from making a mistake, which is 90% of the time due to confusion caused by the handler. Use the collar to get them to sit or get them to take a big back cast or fetch up an ancient disgusting training bird. We all have different expectations of what we want from our dogs. There's a reason that my dogs are happy to put the collar on. They know its time to go to work and they dont associate the ecollar with some big negative experience. That's just my perspective but I am a chessie guy. Gotta know when to pick your battles, make them think it was all their idea and always be as fair as possible. Typically not gonna be successful forcing anything on a chessie and if you try to you will regret it.

[Tomkat]

Chach got an ecollar after he became a retard, didn't need one before, ecollar are are for lazy trainers that are control freaks. I have one now for chach to protect home from being stupid, he has no memory from day to day when it comes to all but the most basic ob

Thank you for handing down the word of God, CopterDoc.

Are you going to define the meaning of the word test, or should we just take your word that you are the only one smart enough to understand?


Sent from an undisclosed location in central Kansas.

[3legged_lab]

Sort of like throwing a pillow at your kid when they're misbehaving across the room.

Exactly, but I get way more joy out of the pillow trick.

[jehler]

Chach got an ecollar after he became a retard, didn't need one before, ecollar are are for lazy trainers that are control freaks. I have one now for chach to protect home from being stupid, he has no memory from day to day when it comes to all but the most basic ob

Thank you for handing down the word of God, CopterDoc.

Are you going to define the meaning of the word test, or should we just take your word that you are the only one smart enough to understand?


Sent from an undisclosed location in central Kansas.

dont associate me with that fucker, you of all people mr no tolerance for anybody else opinions should not be casting that stone

[Westie25]

Sort of like throwing a pillow at your kid when they're misbehaving across the room.

Exactly, but I get way more joy out of the pillow trick.

Ha I got Lacey with the pillow last night. She was not amused.

[Tomkat]

Chach got an ecollar after he became a retard, didn't need one before, ecollar are are for lazy trainers that are control freaks. I have one now for chach to protect home from being stupid, he has no memory from day to day when it comes to all but the most basic ob

Thank you for handing down the word of God, CopterDoc.

Are you going to define the meaning of the word test, or should we just take your word that you are the only one smart enough to understand?


Sent from an undisclosed location in central Kansas.

dont associate me with that fucker, you of all people mr no tolerance for anybody else opinions should not be casting that stone

We both got what we wanted from this thread....a reaction.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes....

Look. Its WRONG of you to say lazy trainers use an e collar. I worked my fucking ass off with Brandy laying the foundations down. I counted my miles of walking her on a leash her first 8 months- 234 miles. I walked her in the rain. We played fetch ten of thousands of times. I took her swimming once a week. I spent hours and hours and HOURS working with her. I reached a point where I KNEW that SHE KNEW what I wanted, but just didnt care.

THAT was what the e collar was for. I never burned her down. Well only two things did she ever get a big jolt for. 1) going in the road. 2) chasing the neighbors horses. She doesn't do either anymore. Those were in her own best interest.

Unlike many people, I use the tone as a positive renforcement. If she is woking a downed bird she didnt mark and I know she is close, I hit the tone. You can actually see her run faster and wag her tail when she hears that tone.

She is not a machine. She has a fantastic personality...and she is a very good hunting dog. I am far from a control freak, unless you think its wrong to have your dog wait until the next flight of birds comes in to retrieve, or you want them to be still as birds are working. I dont know what your dog is like, but even at 3 years old Brandy can hardly sit still. She has a big engine, and when you are hunting (not out of your party barge) there are a lot of times you want to be completly still. Sometimes a bit of pressure at the right time is a very useful tool.

THAT is where I am coming from John. Get your ass down here and hunt with me and my dog and tell me I am a failure and lazy. Tell me my dog wont hunt and has no personality. Tell me I am a control freak.

[Redbeard]

It's vital to teach first then polish with the collar. If you collar condition properly the dog will know that the stimulation is coming from you. For example, when doing force to pile most dogs will learn to flare (or run a big banana type line to the pile) this usually results from too many sends with pressure without enough freebies. But reguardless they will flare because they are associating the collar pressure with that line you burned them on resulting in the dog trying to outsmart the trainer by simply running around the pressure. So yes dogs do associate the stim with a place and not the correction that you are trying to get in. By burning the dog without it being properly CCd will not give you favorable results, for all the dog knows that spot he just stepped on did it or even worse the bird or bumper did it. If you are following an ecollar program the whole point is making it clear to the dog that you are in control all the time and anywhere they may be. Also there is a lot more to the ecollar than just making a correction. If you want a dog that is actually finished and a fine tuned machine in all aspects of its work that dog has to be taught how to work through and with pressure. Pressure isn't just collar stim it's everything that you do, your voice, the heeling stick, your body language, the lead and ecollar and it goes on and on I'm sure you get the point.. Something to think about while ccing your dog, force fetching and moving into pile work... If you want the full benefit of that ecollar you really have to look out at the big picture. Another good rule of thumb to follow is if you have to think about pushing the button chances are you probably shouldn't.

makes sense.

Eric...I concede