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My dog works way better if he has his e collar on.
Sometimes I forget or it goes dead on me...at the worst possible time.

After getting burnt by this I made a little change.
When training I grab my transmitter and hold it under my armpit to stimulate the dog.
Did it so much that all I have to do is stick my right hand in my left armpit...and the dog instantly knows he is about to get popped.
Even when there is no collar on him.
Good trick to know.
If I stand with my hand in armpit...my dog is on rails. Usually.

The downside to this is that you could possibly wind up with a smelly hand...

Dog isn't suppose to know where it is coming from or relate it to anything.

Flightstopper wrote:Dog isn't suppose to know where it is coming from or relate it to anything.

Well, that's one theory. But all those AKC guys aren't really handling with black, transmitter-looking gloves for better visibility. Reminds me of using a hat for a heeling stick then "adjusting the hat" when Pup starts to creep on test day.

Flightstopper wrote:Dog isn't suppose to know where it is coming from or relate it to anything.

The dog is absolutely supposed to know where it is coming from. Collar is just an extension.

ABs dog is just collar-wise.

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

I am an amateur. No program. Just winging it. You cant compare a meat dog to one like you guys own.
Post some videos of you working your dogs.
The dhc dog forum is more suited to th field trial individuals.
I also have noticed there are two camps on this dog stuff. Three maybe.
Field trials, hunt tests, and guys who actually hunt but dont do the other two.
Sorry...I am the third type. Forgive me for saying anything.
Carry on.

aunt betty wrote:I also have noticed there are two camps on this dog stuff. Three maybe.
Field trials, hunt tests, and guys who actually hunt but dont do the other two.

I not aware of a single HRC hunt tester I've met who doesn't also hunt. Including the gals.

Rick wrote:

Flightstopper wrote:Dog isn't suppose to know where it is coming from or relate it to anything.

Well, that's one theory. But all those AKC guys aren't really handling with black, transmitter-looking gloves for better visibility. Reminds me of using a hat for a heeling stick then "adjusting the hat" when Pup starts to creep on test day.

now that's a nice trick

FlintRiverFowler wrote:The downside to this is that you could possibly wind up with a smelly hand...

:lol::lol:


Do what works for ya AB. I've only trained 1 dog so I may be talking out my ass here, but I don't believe that a set program will work for any dog. They are all different and what works for 1 may be completely wrong for another. That's my .02.

I just kick my dogs over and over again. I do this wearing a mustard stained wife beater.

120v shock collar does the job too.

He's not a champion hunter but will fetch ducks when I shoot them. Sometimes from quite long distances in rice fields. His longest retrieves were well over 200 yards last year and the year before.
He has also messed up a time or two. It happens.
Take note of how it's ALMOST ALL HAND SIGNALS. You hear that dove cooing but not much sound from me.

Cluck, cluck, cluck.....BUCKOCK...cluck, cluck, cluck.
Chickens.

What is your command you are saying to send the dog? Will he stop on his way to the mark if you whistle with out voice? What are you using the short whistle for? It looks like it is a "come" whistle command. Just curious. I use one short whistle as pause/sit/look at me, depending on the circumstance.
When you said "ALMOST ALL HAND SIGNALS" I was expecting blind retrieves with hand signals to direct him?
I try to train my dog similar but, I do not use a collar. Your statement at the end is big, some people don't get it though.
5 minutes every day is worth more than an hour any day.
It's obvious you have put your time in.

QH's Paw wrote:What is your command you are saying to send the dog? Will he stop on his way to the mark if you whistle with out voice? What are you using the short whistle for? It looks like it is a "come" whistle command. Just curious. I use one short whistle as pause/sit/look at me, depending on the circumstance.
When you said "ALMOST ALL HAND SIGNALS" I was expecting blind retrieves with hand signals to direct him?
I try to train my dog similar but, I do not use a collar. Your statement at the end is big, some people don't get it though.
5 minutes every day is worth more than an hour any day.
It's obvious you have put your time in.

I say the dogs name, Milo, to send him.
Yes, I can stop, and whistle sit him. I use short little soft whistle to get his attention. Not hard enuff to roll the pea.
I blow it hard...he stops right there.
By the way. No program. Self taught myself to train dogs so...everything I do is wrong.
Thank you for positive feed back. You have no idea how many dummies I have thrown.

That cross body send is quite British.

Yep, me to. Ive been told I'm a barbarian, because I don't apply shock therapy on any of my dogs.
Of course, the people that say this say they are only applying pressure to their dog and they are "nicking" their dog. I obviously know nothing about training my dog because I have no ribbons or trophies.
The people who say the e-collar isn't that bad also justify their statement by saying they put it on their arm and applied a "nic" to themselves. Pfft, put it on you neck and turn it up to 100% and hand the controller to your ol' lady. Than I'll believe it's only pressure. I have more respect for the guy that says an e-collar helps him extend his reach on the dog. He has nothing to defend, he knows it hurts the dog(or at least realizes it's not just pressure) to right the situation.
Anyway sorry for the rant.....again.
Again, good work with the dog. It's your dog, you trained it.

Thaks rick and QH. I really have no clue other than I read Richard Wolters water dog.
I failed to teach milo blinds. He is a "rock dog".
A bit ashamed. I sure could use a good dog buddy.
Just to watch. Tried going to field trial. Had horrible experience.
Long time ago. Three dogs ago.

aunt betty wrote:Thaks rick and QH. I really have no clue other than I read Richard Wolters water dog.
I failed to teach milo blinds. He is a "rock dog".
A bit ashamed. I sure could use a good dog buddy.
Just to watch. Tried going to field trial. Had horrible experience.
Long time ago. Three dogs ago.

Yep, I read Wolters too. How dare you train your dog with such ideas, so outdated. You are a barbarian too, you just don't realize it yet.
Here's to the barbarians that own and train their own dogs!

aunt betty wrote:Cluck, cluck, cluck.....BUCKOCK...cluck, cluck, cluck.
Chickens.

If that's a video challenge, "I'm your huckleberry."

We do something similar that I think of as Chinese fire drills, where I throw and launch bumpers in random order and direction trying to beat the dog at the marking game. Isn't something I'd want to do a lot of, because it can encourage a tendency to hunt up what should be better visual marks, but occasional use seems good for marking memory. (The dog's, not mine, I frequently forget where some of the marks fell.)

Anyway, here's a Chinese fire drill I inadvertently "won" when the mark he picked up third bounced off the top of the far levee into the drain, and he remembered both where it landed and where it bounced from as separate marks. (Mainstream trainers will note my unconventional whistle signals when I handle him out of that confusion.) Was no armpit scratching, as we don't use a collar, but I did have to repeat our two-toot stop whistle at one point. Bad coyote.

QH's Paw wrote:

aunt betty wrote:Thaks rick and QH. I really have no clue other than I read Richard Wolters water dog.
I failed to teach milo blinds. He is a "rock dog".
A bit ashamed. I sure could use a good dog buddy.
Just to watch. Tried going to field trial. Had horrible experience.
Long time ago. Three dogs ago.

Yep, I read Wolters too. How dare you train your dog with such ideas, so outdated. You are a barbarian too, you just don't realize it yet.
Here's to the barbarians that own and train their own dogs!

It's popular in dog circles to knock Wolters, but his books and half a lick of common sense have little doubt helped make more serviceable gun dogs than any other. Though I did have a sound pointing dog background, Walter's Game Dog was the only retriever reference I used with my first Chessie, and he was doing HRC Finished work well before he was two.

(Remember that because he'd done well enough to earn a breeding request I didn't want to pass up, but he wasn't yet old enough for OFA hip certification and what they call a "preliminary" turned up a moderately displastic hip that ended his breeding and HRC careers. By limiting joint-pounding land work and doing a crap load of cushioning muscle-building water work in the off seasons, he still managed to enjoy 10 1/2 commercial seasons before the hip forced his retirement.)

You know how hard it is for me to come out of the dog training closet?
Peeked out a couple times in that other forum.
I hid real quick after the third or fourth "what program you using?" inquisitions.
I think I could learn a thing or two here without getting too butthurt.
Thanks for posting a video.
Hard to take critism from ppl who wont post a picture of their own dogs working.
Thank you for accepting the challenge and I salute you sir.
Milo cost me 200 bucks. He has no hunters at all in his pedigree. I wanted a pet that hunts and that is exactly what he is.
I am VERY proud of that and it rubs guys with certs...badly.

aunt betty wrote:Milo cost me 200 bucks. He has no hunters at all in his pedigree. I wanted a pet that hunts and that is exactly what he is.
I am VERY proud of that and it rubs guys with certs...badly.

Not all guys with "certs". You could have a damn purple spotted fetching goat for all I care as long as your happy with his work thats all that really matters at the end of the day.

Where can a fellow get one of those purple spotted fetching goats, and has Graham produced a program for them yet?

Good show Rick.
And you've done a great job of hiding all the scars he must have from going through all that training with out a collar. Maybe I shouldn't jump to conclusions, you didn't actually say no collar during training, did you?
You just might be a barbarian too, at least to some degree.
Again, great show.

No collar, no heeling stick, no checkchord, no tennis shoes, no treats, no clicker. If it were really the engineering project many make it out to be, I couldn't do it.

But, then, I'm not asking my dogs to do engineering projects, either. Mostly just work with me to get what we both want.

I should do a video of how I ff'ed.
Milo was dropping ducks on the bank, in front of blind, in front of 6-8 panting shooters.
Lucky they didnt shoot us both.
I HAD to do something so I ff'ed the heck out of him.
It was hard to do to...my baby.
So glad I did it now.

Rick wrote:No collar, no heeling stick, no checkchord, no tennis shoes, no treats, no clicker. If it were really the engineering project many make it out to be, I couldn't do it.

But, then, I'm not asking my dogs to do engineering projects, either. Mostly just work with me to get what we both want.

Your video reminded me how there are a million drainage ditches around here to work a dog in.
Kinda had the lake thing in my head too much. All my dogs start out doing ditch work like that.
Need to keep at it.
Milo kinda does blinds but I havent photographed that. Soon, maybe.

Rick wrote:Where can a fellow get one of those purple spotted fetching goats, and has Graham produced a program for them yet?

California would be my guess. They won't help you with the grass though, unless it's for medicinal purposes of course...