WaterfowlForum.Net

Decided to get this debate out of the picture thread.

Eric Haynes wrote:I've never seen a healthy 130lb lab...ever. That is all.

I've seen a number of healthy 115lb+ labs. Just had to be breed for that weight. You guys are just lumping all weight into fat.

Lots of healthy dogs that are over 100 pounds. What I didn't like is seeing my big lab hobbling around at 8 years of age. We did waterfowl and upland and his joints just wore out. Holding Kenai when we did finally put him down was one of the toughest things in life for me. Maybe the small ones don't do any better, never owned a smaller lab.

AKPirate wrote:Lots of healthy dogs that are over 100 pounds. What I didn't like is seeing my big lab hobbling around at 8 years of age. We did waterfowl and upland and his joints just wore out. Holding Kenai when we did finally put him down was one of the toughest things in life for me. Maybe the small ones don't do any better, never owned a smaller lab.

Did you seek out and find a breeder that has breed larger labs for years resulting in a bigger frame on the dog or just have a dog that got to 100lbs? I'm not trying to say that I know what I'm talking about here but I have seen a few 115lb+ labs that were VERY lean and had the frame size to support all that extra weight from the muscle and 2 of them were 10+ years old and still hunting.

My current dog has the frame of a 70lb dog and that's why he's only 68lbs. It'd be cruel and a waste of a good dog to let him get over weight.

Olly wrote:You guys are just lumping all weight into fat.

dont lump me in with all those gay heads who said that

I don't think many of the guys here are confusing large dogs with fat dogs

Olly wrote:

AKPirate wrote:Lots of healthy dogs that are over 100 pounds. What I didn't like is seeing my big lab hobbling around at 8 years of age. We did waterfowl and upland and his joints just wore out. Holding Kenai when we did finally put him down was one of the toughest things in life for me. Maybe the small ones don't do any better, never owned a smaller lab.

Did you seek out and find a breeder that has breed larger labs for years resulting in a bigger frame on the dog or just have a dog that got to 100lbs? I'm not trying to say that I know what I'm talking about here but I have seen a few 115lb+ labs that were VERY lean and had the frame size to support all that extra weight from the muscle and 2 of them were 10+ years old and still hunting.

My current dog has the frame of a 70lb dog and that's why he's only 68lbs. It'd be cruel and a waste of a good dog to let him get over weight.

Mine was definitely not overweight. He was a large frame dog. Sounds like the 2 dogs over 10 years got a good deal in life. I am no expert but I do prefer the larger dogs. Good thread.

Redbeard wrote:I don't think many of the guys here are confusing large dogs with fat dogs

So if a smaller framed dog is unhealthy because it's larger size puts strain on things like it's hips and joints why would a larger dog with larger hips, and joints be effected by the larger size? I'm really trying to understand the logic here.

To me it sounds like it always equals out.

Small frame + small weight = Normal/natural wear and tear on the dogs body.
Small frame + large weight = Extra/un-natural weight on the dog resulting in premature break down of the dog's body parts that have to bare the extra weight.

Larger frame + large weight = Normal/natural wear and tear on the dogs body.

That's how I see it and like I said I have met 2 labs that were very large (not just weight) that were lean and older in age still working every season.

This may be an exaggerated example but look at all dogs in general. Its widely accepted that a small dog will have a longer life expectancy, and shorter on a big dog. I dont know that you would get that much of a difference between an 80lb lab and a 115lb lab though.

I won't say that every bigger dog will wear out faster if only used for water work. I have owned, seen, and hunted with many bigger labs, every one has slowed down and showed wear before smaller framed dogs. Like I stated before, all were upland dogs too, which is way harder on a dog. A 115# dog jumping out of the back of a truck, is not the same as a 50# dog, many bigger dogs have damage to front elbows for this reason, I know my lab did. After I learned this, I did get a dog ramp for the truck, lifting a dog that big in and out of the truck a lot sucks. I love the look of big labs, but you gain nothing from the increase of size that I've seen. Only good fit I see for a bigger retriever is for someone who hunts bigger water in a colder climate. None of this is fact, only my experiences throughout the years.

3legged_lab wrote:This may be an exaggerated example but look at all dogs in general. Its widely accepted that a small dog will have a longer life expectancy, and shorter on a big dog. I dont know that you would get that much of a difference between an 80lb lab and a 115lb lab though.

This is true, my sister had a little terrier that lived to be something like 16.

I would think that if you wanted a larger dog you'd need to do the responsible thing and seek out a breeder that has breed dogs in the weight range you want for a long time. So you can see the past history of their dogs and so their dogs will have more than a few generations of large dogs in their lineage.

I still disagree that getting a larger dog automatically means the dog will live a shorter life.

this guy is way to fat work him much and he starts huffing n puffing .but he got that way because after his eye had to be removed the lady of the house( aka the one who thinks she is boss)was giving him treats hand over fist .poor baby !!! he is a big dog and in hunting trim 65lbs now fatboy pushing 80 and you can its a bad deal

Olly wrote:

Redbeard wrote:I don't think many of the guys here are confusing large dogs with fat dogs

So if a smaller framed dog is unhealthy because it's larger size puts strain on things like it's hips and joints why would a larger dog with larger hips, and joints be effected by the larger size? I'm really trying to understand the logic here.

To me it sounds like it always equals out.

Small frame + small weight = Normal/natural wear and tear on the dogs body.
Small frame + large weight = Extra/un-natural weight on the dog resulting in premature break down of the dog's body parts that have to bare the extra weight.

Larger frame + large weight = Normal/natural wear and tear on the dogs body.

That's how I see it and like I said I have met 2 labs that were very large (not just weight) that were lean and older in age still working every season.

first of all I don't have a life time of experience with hunting dogs to know the answer to this but...

...i'm gonna refer back to my athlete example. More specifically basketball players since I'm most familiar with em. But generally speaking taller athletes, especially those in the 7 foot range, have much shorter careers than the much shorter players. The shorter, compact athlete's bodies hold up much longer.

I don't know how or if this relates to dogs. But in my opinion there's something there. Maybe height adds extra leverage to joints that shorter dogs or athletes may not be exposed to.

ea oneal wrote:this guy is way to fat work him much and he starts huffing n puffing .but he got that way because after his eye had to be removed the lady of the house( aka the one who thinks she is boss)was giving him treats hand over fist .poor baby !!! he is a big dog and in hunting trim 65lbs now fatboy pushing 80 and you can its a bad deal

IMG_0360.JPG

thats tough to see

Redbeard wrote:

Olly wrote:

Redbeard wrote:I don't think many of the guys here are confusing large dogs with fat dogs

So if a smaller framed dog is unhealthy because it's larger size puts strain on things like it's hips and joints why would a larger dog with larger hips, and joints be effected by the larger size? I'm really trying to understand the logic here.

To me it sounds like it always equals out.

Small frame + small weight = Normal/natural wear and tear on the dogs body.
Small frame + large weight = Extra/un-natural weight on the dog resulting in premature break down of the dog's body parts that have to bare the extra weight.

Larger frame + large weight = Normal/natural wear and tear on the dogs body.

That's how I see it and like I said I have met 2 labs that were very large (not just weight) that were lean and older in age still working every season.

first of all I don't have a life time of experience with hunting dogs to know the answer to this but...

...i'm gonna refer back not my athlete example. More specifically basketball players since I'm most familiar with em. But generally speaking taller athletes, especially those in the 7 foot range, have much shorter careers than the much shorter players. The shorter, compact athlete's bodies hold up much longer.

I don't know how or if this relates to dogs. But in my opinion there's something there. Maybe height adds extra leverage to joints that shorter dogs or athletes may not be exposed to.

That's a good point.

As for the plus to larger dogs, I've heard some rice hunters say they prefer taller dogs who can bound easier through the shallow rice fields.

But I don't hunt rice enough to really know

I think this can be Chalked up to the old "what is a better choice for a gun dog! Male or female argument". I don't think there is a truly right or wrong answer it's just a matter of opinion

Bootlipkiller wrote:I think this can be Chalked up to the old "what is a better choice for a gun dog! Male or female argument". I don't think there is a truly right or wrong answer it's just a matter of opinion

no one cares about the opinion of a strawberry spaniel owner

And why did you capitalize "chalked?" Were you trying to emphasize it?

Redbeard wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:I think this can be Chalked up to the old "what is a better choice for a gun dog! Male or female argument". I don't think there is a truly right or wrong answer it's just a matter of opinion

no one cares about the opinion of a strawberry spaniel owner

I like to pretended like I own a real dog sometimes. Kinda like when Betty pretends to be a guide.

Redbeard wrote:

ea oneal wrote:this guy is way to fat work him much and he starts huffing n puffing .but he got that way because after his eye had to be removed the lady of the house( aka the one who thinks she is boss)was giving him treats hand over fist .poor baby !!! he is a big dog and in hunting trim 65lbs now fatboy pushing 80 and you can its a bad deal

IMG_0360.JPG

thats tough to see

I started him on a low cal food and were taking a 30 min walk late in day .as for the eye old boy don't let it bug him .I see him turn his head to see, hits his marks ,hes just a happy guy .I must say I myself like a taller dog not so much big but taller we hunt marsh and thay seem to bog down less

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:I think this can be Chalked up to the old "what is a better choice for a gun dog! Male or female argument". I don't think there is a truly right or wrong answer it's just a matter of opinion

no one cares about the opinion of a strawberry spaniel owner

I like to pretended like I own a real dog sometimes. Kinda like when Betty pretends to be a guide.

hahaha

Redbeard wrote:And why did you capitalize "chalked?" Were you trying to emphasize it?

Got to accent the big words for the highway cops.

ea oneal wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

ea oneal wrote:this guy is way to fat work him much and he starts huffing n puffing .but he got that way because after his eye had to be removed the lady of the house( aka the one who thinks she is boss)was giving him treats hand over fist .poor baby !!! he is a big dog and in hunting trim 65lbs now fatboy pushing 80 and you can its a bad deal

IMG_0360.JPG

thats tough to see

I started him on a low cal food and were taking a 30 min walk late in day .as for the eye old boy don't let it bug him .I see him turn his head to see, hits his marks ,hes just a happy guy .I must say I myself like a taller dog not so much big but taller we hunt marsh and thay seem to bog down less

you gonna continue to hunt him?

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Redbeard wrote:And why did you capitalize "chalked?" Were you trying to emphasize it?

Got to accent the big words for the highway cops.

oooooh no you didn't go there.

Coming from the guy whose phone's auto correct is WORN OUT

Redbeard wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Redbeard wrote:And why did you capitalize "chalked?" Were you trying to emphasize it?

Got to accent the big words for the highway cops.

oooooh no you didn't go there.

Coming from the guy whose phone's auto correct is WORN OUT

It deserves a metal Hahahaha

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Redbeard wrote:And why did you capitalize "chalked?" Were you trying to emphasize it?

Got to accent the big words for the highway cops.

oooooh no you didn't go there.

Coming from the guy whose phone's auto correct is WORN OUT

It deserves a metal Hahahaha

freaking presidential Medal of Honor

Something that hasn't come up is that Labrador Retrievers are prone to hip dysplasia and in many cases this manifests itself at ages 5 and older. Quite often people buy a Lab because it comes from a great hunting dog and a great hunting bitch and the expectation is that you will probably get a great hunting pup and in many, many cases this is true. However if the sire and dam have not been X-rayed (after they are 2 years old and their hips are fully developed) there is no way of knowing if this genetic anomaly has or will be passed on to your new pup. Suppose that you have the best retriever ever to come down the pike and you don't know that it has bad hips, all your hunting buddies are throwing dollars at you to get a pup from your dog who is three years old and dysplasia hasn't manifested itself yet. Chances are good that the pups will carry the gene and break down sooner than one would expect.

It is important to spay or neuter any dog that has poor hips and it is important to get your dog an OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) certificate before you breed your dog. Several large dog breeds are so affected, especially Labrador Retrievers and German Shepherds.

If you are paying good money for what you expect to be a good dog it is prudent to choose a dog or bitch that comes from parents that have good (certified) hips.

As Olly pointed out, bigger dogs have bigger bones but to go a step further, big bones don't necessarily mean well developed hip sockets. Just because a dog that is otherwise at the proper weight is large doesn't necessarily mean that it will break down and die at an earlier age.

Good info Ron but I think the final word will be whatever Eric has to say.

Good info Ron but I think the final word will be whatever Eric has to say.