Rifle dilemma

[Bulldog0156]

So the local sporting goods store has a ruger allweather 25.06 with rings for $595 and it's been there for at least a month. I've been looking a lot at the savage 11/111 BTH in .243 which has a cool looking stock with a thumbhole, which I think I would shoot pretty well. I believe I could get one of those new for about $750. Not sure which route I want to go now, I like the extra punch that the .06 provides, but I also like the fact that .243 is cheaper and kicks even less.

[DeadEye_Dan]

The calibers are a draw and are nearly identical.

I've always been a fan of Ruger's scope mounting system.

Savages are known t be shooters.

[Redbeard]

The calibers are a draw and are nearly identical.

I've always been a fan of Ruger's scope mounting system.

Savages are known t be shooters.

I'll root of the 25-06. But what're ya hunting with it? And I agree with Dan on the mounts.

[Tomkat]

The calibers are a draw and are nearly identical.

I've always been a fan of Ruger's scope mounting system.

Savages are known t be shooters.

Ballistically the 06 enjoys an advantage at long range over the 243 at long range. I think that only matters if you are antelope hunting. I am taking a savage model 10 243 antelope hunting this fall and Jarbo is taking a 25 06. At 400 yards there is a 5" difference in drop. For me the 243 makes better sense. Good luck with your new gun.


Why your no daisy at all....

[Bulldog0156]

Thanks guys, you guys have pretty much summed up exactly what I have been thinking. It's exclusively going to be used in open country deer and antelope hunts.

I'm leaning heavily towards the savage.

[Flightstopper]

Anyone care to educate this rifle dummy on how the .243 and 25-06 are a wash?

[Tomkat]

Anyone care to educate this rifle dummy on how the .243 and 25-06 are a wash?

Ofcourse they are not exactly the same. But for the AVERAGE shooter and deer hunter, the ballistics are similar out to 300 yards. Needless to say, the .25-06 shoots flatter at long range, its a bigger diameter and a larger case.

Does that clear it up Tex?

You have some more to add, me thinks.

[jarbo03]

Thanks guys, you guys have pretty much summed up exactly what I have been thinking. It's exclusively going to be used in open country deer and antelope hunts.

I'm leaning heavily towards the savage.

I bought my rifle for the same reasons. After studying I chose the 25-06. A dead on hold out to 300yds or more when sighted at 200yds. Was superior in wind drift, which you will deal with consistently where goats live. A better choice if you decide to chase monster muleys that roam that area also.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[DeadEye_Dan]

Anyone care to educate this rifle dummy on how the .243 and 25-06 are a wash?

I guess I don't consider 5" to be a factor at 400 yards on a hunting rifle.


If (and that's a big IF) you are enough of a marksman to adjust your hold 5" at 400 yards under field conditions, you're still not doing it with anything less than 20x, which isn't typically what you see on a rifle set up to chase game.

The tables I checked list MPBR for a 105 gr .243 @ 298 yards and 316 yards for a 115 gr .25/06.

They may well have different drift rates, which is certainly a factor - but it cannot be a huge difference.

[assateague]

What is the ft lbs of energy? I've shot a few deer with a .243 (not many) and never had them drop like they've been poleaxed the way they did with the .25-06 with a 100 gr TSX.

[DeadEye_Dan]

Dropping deer is 100% shot placement.

I've probably shot 75-100 with a .223 from ranges of 80-300yds and can't remember but one or two that took a single step.


And no, I'm not talking head/neck shots. I talking front shoulder/brachial plexus

[assateague]

I disagree. I've shot maybe 110 deer with a .30-06, another 40 or so with a .25-06, and probably about 100 with my .35, and maybe 5 with a .243. The .35 wins hands down in the "drop them" category, but the .25 is a close, very close, second. The .30-06 and .243 had some run-offs, and while some of it is shot placement, not all of it is. On more than one occasion, I have shot large deer with the .30-06 from less than 80 yards, and had them go 100 yards through the woods, with literally no lungs/heart. Barring a gut shot, the .25 dropped every one in it's tracks. And the .35, it's not even that precise- if it hits anywhere near the chest, the deer drops.

I know there's a lot to it, including bullet, shot placement, lead, etc, but even perfect shots with the .243 and .30-06 I've had some tracking jobs. Never with the .25 or .35.

[Flightstopper]

Bust those shoulders up, that meat sucks anyways.

[DeadEye_Dan]

The only way to put any game down in its tracks is to disrupt the CNS in some way, shape or fashion - be it from direct impact to spine/nerves or through hydrostatic shock of the bullet impacting near the spine/nerves.

I too have had lung/heart shot deer run with everything from .22 lr to .338 RUM, certainly ended up dead deer, but all were an awful long way from where I shot them.

[Tomkat]

I disagree. I've shot maybe 110 deer with a .30-06, another 40 or so with a .25-06, and probably about 100 with my .35, and maybe 5 with a .243. The .35 wins hands down in the "drop them" category, but the .25 is a close, very close, second. The .30-06 and .243 had some run-offs, and while some of it is shot placement, not all of it is. On more than one occasion, I have shot large deer with the .30-06 from less than 80 yards, and had them go 100 yards through the woods, with literally no lungs/heart. Barring a gut shot, the .25 dropped every one in it's tracks. And the .35, it's not even that precise- if it hits anywhere near the chest, the deer drops.

I know there's a lot to it, including bullet, shot placement, lead, etc, but even perfect shots with the .243 and .30-06 I've had some tracking jobs. Never with the .25 or .35.

I have killed 12-13 deer with a .270 (.27) They were most always bang flops. The best one I shot was through the lungs, he went 30 yards out of the woods and laid down on the field road. The last 5-6 were DOA when they hit planet earth.

I shot one deer with my .30-06 that went 40 yards and fell over dead.
I shot another one that was a bang flop.

The black bear I shot in Canada was a bang flop. That was with a Nosler Partition bullet, I should add. (my hunting partner needed 3 with his .35 Whelen)

Oddly enough, I have never shot a deer with a .243. I have killed more than a few coyotes...and they ALWAYS go down for the count.

My cousin shot a 182 B & C Kansas buck with a .243. Bang, then flop.

Conclusion: IMO, shot placement is 98% of the equation. That 2% is the projectile speed and construction.

Not arguing or agreeing with you or Dan. There is a grain of wisdom in all 3 of our observations.

I am taking my .243 to Montana this fall to shoot an Antelope. I agree with Dan, the ballistic charts are not THAT much different between the two. I would rather do a better stalk and take a 200 yard shot than a 400 yard shot any day. I will probably use a realitively light bullet, too. The Sierra 85 gr HPBT has gotten high marks from people that have used it. I studied the BC (balasistic coefficient) on that bullet and its actually not bad. Field reports indicate that it delivers good results as far as controlled expansion on real world antelope shots.

AT, having said all that, I am really looking forward to shooting a deer with my .50 ML this fall. Its the other end of the scale- a big fat bullet with lots of weight, moving slower than the antelope bullet. Based on my experience with shooting shotgun slugs at hogs, I bet it knocks 'em down pretty good.

[Bootlipkiller]

Two words, bow mag.

[3legged_lab]

Two words, bow mag.

:lol::lol:

[jehler]

I've killed 3000-5000 deer with a bow mag at ranges from 50-1000 yards and have yet to find more than some hair and fecal matter in the crater

[rebelp74]

I've killed 3000-5000 deer with a bow mag at ranges from 50-1000 yards and have yet to find more than some hair and fecal matter in the crater

1475yds is the magic number

[rebelp74]

You'll find perfectly roasted quarters, racks and backstrap in the crater.

[3legged_lab]

I've killed 3000-5000 deer with a bow mag at ranges from 50-1000 yards and have yet to find more than some hair and fecal matter in the crater

Haha!

[Tomkat]

did you all see the subject line?

Maybe you could start a thread called 'bow mag dilemma" ?

Its just an idea.

[assateague]

The more I think about it, the more I think my shots have to do with the actual bullet, not the caliber. The Barnes triple shock is the best bullet I've ever shot at game. The difference between them and a cor-lokt in my .30-06 is the difference between tracking 0 yards and tracking 150 yards. The only time the cheap Remington cor-lokt work reliably for me is 200 grains from the .35

[Tomkat]

The more I think about it, the more I think my shots have to do with the actual bullet, not the caliber. The Barnes triple shock is the best bullet I've ever shot at game. The difference between them and a cor-lokt in my .30-06 is the difference between tracking 0 yards and tracking 150 yards. The only time the cheap Remington cor-lokt work reliably for me is 200 grains from the .35

Have you ever tried the Nosler Partition? Its the OG bonded bullet of mother earth! LOL

It was the first one. They are fantastic bullets to this day.

I have heard very good things about the triple shock as well.

The write ups on my 85 Sierra Game King HPBT have been very good. Great accuracy and very good controlled expansion.

All bullets are not created equal. You still have to do your part and hit the boiler room, but what they do when they get to the target matters...its a 50/50 thing anyway.

[DeadEye_Dan]

Agreed, some bullets do a better job of transferring energy.

Completely off topic - one of the coolest sounds I've heard is the sound that a .223 bullet makes hitting a deer.

[Tomkat]

Agreed, some bullets do a better job of transferring energy.

Completely off topic - one of the coolest sounds I've heard is the sound that a .223 bullet makes hitting a deer.

Until recently it was illegal to shoot a deer with a .223

I have never done it to know.

[assateague]

I fear for my freedom when I get that night vision scope for my .22

[DeadEye_Dan]

Agreed, some bullets do a better job of transferring energy.

Completely off topic - one of the coolest sounds I've heard is the sound that a .223 bullet makes hitting a deer.

Until recently it was illegal to shoot a deer with a .223

I have never done it to know.

Not in Michigan's rifle zone.

I'd describe it like this:

POWzzzzzzzPOP.

The length of the zzzzz is directly proportional to distance from the target.

[DeadEye_Dan]

I fear for my freedom when I get that night vision scope for my .22

Did I post the video shooting my 10/22 with a suppressor and sub-sonics??
It's a miracle I'm not in the graybar hotel.

[assateague]

Yes. And that will be next. I'm putting the night vision binoculars on eBay this week, and the scope will be purchased as soon as they sell.