A Water Question

[assateague]

So, messing around with the water heater (hopefully got it fixed. Drained it, replaced the pressure relief valve, refilled it, and fired it back up). When I turned off the water at the top, that is also the water which shuts off the whole house. Now to the question.


Let's say I build a platform the bottom of which is 2 feet higher than that pipe on top of the water heater. Now let's say that on that perfectly plumbed and leveled platform I put a 500 gallon tank, tied in to all the gutters from the house. (There is no water/plumbing on the second floor) Then, I tied that in to the feed to the water heater/house. In the event off a power failure, I then close one valve and open the other (the latter being the one leading from my new water tower). I would then have water throughout the house just as I do now, correct? Pardon me if this is a silly question, but I know nothing about water delivery. And all the Amish houses I've been in have hand pumps, rather than this imagined gravity fed system. Am I missing something?

[gila-river]

I don't see why it wouldn't work, I would however think you would need a very good sort of filter/screening system. If a leaf or some shit got plugged in a pipe in the wall it could turn into a real cluster fuck.

[GadwallGetter530]

Yeah. What Gila said about the filtering system. Other than that it could work. Gravity is a powerful way to move water from one point to another. Ive seen a couple of cabins fed via gravity from a creek or sprig above it on a hill. Same concept.

[AKPirate]

Yeah. What Gila said about the filtering system. Other than that it could work. Gravity is a powerful way to move water from one point to another. Ive seen a couple of cabins fed via gravity from a creek or sprig about it on a hill. Same concept.

I think this is key, being uphill provides the water pressure, 2 feet above the water tank may not provide enough head pressure.

[capt1972]

the bottom of your water tower needs to be higher than your highest faucet. Not to confuse ya but for every foot above the faucet you will get about 1/2psi.

[assateague]

the bottom of your water tower needs to be higher than your highest faucet. Not to confuse ya but for every foot above the faucet you will get about 1/2psi.

Holy shit. Well then by my present plan, I'd get about 3 psi. Hmmm, back to the theoretical drawing board.

[capt1972]

the bottom of your water tower needs to be higher than your highest faucet. Not to confuse ya but for every foot above the faucet you will get about 1/2psi.

Holy shit. Well then by my present plan, I'd get about 3 psi. Hmmm, back to the theoretical drawing board.

psi isn't that big of a deal, its flow you want. That 1/2psi is with an empty tank. if you have any psi at all then you will have flow.

[Frylock]

So, messing around with the water heater (hopefully got it fixed. Drained it, replaced the pressure relief valve, refilled it, and fired it back up). When I turned off the water at the top, that is also the water which shuts off the whole house. Now to the question.


Let's say I build a platform the bottom of which is 2 feet higher than that pipe on top of the water heater. Now let's say that on that perfectly plumbed and leveled platform I put a 500 gallon tank, tied in to all the gutters from the house. (There is no water/plumbing on the second floor) Then, I tied that in to the feed to the water heater/house. In the event off a power failure, I then close one valve and open the other (the latter being the one leading from my new water tower). I would then have water throughout the house just as I do now, correct? Pardon me if this is a silly question, but I know nothing about water delivery. And all the Amish houses I've been in have hand pumps, rather than this imagined gravity fed system. Am I missing something?

Too long...did not read the the whole thing so I got no answers for ya.

[capt1972]

So, messing around with the water heater (hopefully got it fixed. Drained it, replaced the pressure relief valve, refilled it, and fired it back up). When I turned off the water at the top, that is also the water which shuts off the whole house. Now to the question.


Let's say I build a platform the bottom of which is 2 feet higher than that pipe on top of the water heater. Now let's say that on that perfectly plumbed and leveled platform I put a 500 gallon tank, tied in to all the gutters from the house. (There is no water/plumbing on the second floor) Then, I tied that in to the feed to the water heater/house. In the event off a power failure, I then close one valve and open the other (the latter being the one leading from my new water tower). I would then have water throughout the house just as I do now, correct? Pardon me if this is a silly question, but I know nothing about water delivery. And all the Amish houses I've been in have hand pumps, rather than this imagined gravity fed system. Am I missing something?

Too long...did not read the the whole thing so I got no answers for ya.

[Flightstopper]

the bottom of your water tower needs to be higher than your highest faucet. Not to confuse ya but for every foot above the faucet you will get about 1/2psi.

Holy shit. Well then by my present plan, I'd get about 3 psi. Hmmm, back to the theoretical drawing board.

I was going to say pick up a cheap pump from Harbor freight but then remembered we were taking power outage. Carry on.

Have seen deer camps plumbed with rain barrels and a small pump.

[Frylock]

Running water is for pansies.

[capt1972]

If you have a barrel full of water up on a hill, and the hill is 40 feet high, you will get normal house pressure at that point. Easiest way to pipe it is with garden hoses from the barrel to the spicket outside the house

used the hill as an example, hay loft of the barn or attic of the house could also work.

[QH's Paw]

I don't know the formula or equation(s) involved but, I agree with Tim, it probably isn't enough height.
At my previous property, I had a 1000 gallon tank (cistern) 30 feet below it, I had another 200 gallon tank. Then, probably another 60 feet below was the house and shop. The pipes were 1 1/2' all the way from tanks to the building manifold. From there they split into 3/4" and 1/2" tubing/pipes. At times, it was border line whether the water pressure was enough to maintain the pressure switch that allowed my pressure washer to run.
The other issue will be contamination. Rather than being concerned about debris in your water system, I'd concerned with bacterial growth, among other things. You would need to shock your system occasionally and would probably end up needing a filtration system that would run a few hundred , plus occasional filter replacement. On top of that, you're likely going to decide it needs a pump after a few months of use. You could spend some serious ducketts on a high quality, high output, RV 12V pump that only runs when pressure drops. Back that with a $100 RV battery that is trickle charged with a solar panel for another $20-$100 depending on quality. Gonna take awhile for you to recoup your savings. But, look at the bright side, you'll be using that water they are taxing you for.

[aunt betty]

Yeah. What Gila said about the filtering system. Other than that it could work. Gravity is a powerful way to move water from one point to another. Ive seen a couple of cabins fed via gravity from a creek or sprig about it on a hill. Same concept.

I think this is key, being uphill provides the water pressure, 2 feet above the water tank may not provide enough head pressure.

AHAH! One of these guys actually has a brain.

[aunt betty]

I dunno...but I think there's a reason the city pumps all that water way up dere to de top of dat dere "water" tower.
????????

Must be some kind of water science.
Better ask Archimedes

[vincentpa]

Forget the whole project. You're too cheap to pay for a proper platform and roof modifications to support the 500 gallons of water. A small generator and a pump look much better I bet.

[Woody]

I don't feel like doing all the math, but that wont work, assa. You would need feet of water column.

[(MT)Montanafowler]

water has a psi (gravity) of approx .3-.4 lbs per foot of vertical drop, so if you have a hundred foot vertical drop, you have enough pressure to blast 30-40 psi, which is pretty standard for faucets. as for your hot water heater, it won't work unless you rig your hot water line to run off the woodstove, up the pipe, by creating thermodynamic pressure via steam, condensing as it falls (like in a still).

[assateague]

Why would I run it off the woodstove instead of the perfectly good propane water heater I have now?

[The Duck Hammer]

Or you could run it across the roof in black pvc and let the sun heat it up for you....

[(MT)Montanafowler]

Why would I run it off the woodstove instead of the perfectly good propane water heater I have now?

forgot you had propane. designing my future system around the wood stove.

[RonE]

Jim,

As long as the unpressurized water source is above the highest water tap you will have sufficient water for emergencies. So long as the bottom of your water tank is above the top of your water heater, the water heater will fill, the toilet will fill and the taps will run. The shower may not have the pressure you know and love but it will have some flow and the hot water will work. Fresh water has a gauge pressure of .432 psi per foot of water column. If you have a ten foot tall tank that has ten feet of water in it the pressure at the bottom of the tank will be 4.32 psi. now if the bottom of the tank is a foot above the shower head, the pressure at the shower will be 4.752 and at a tap that is three feet lower than the shower head, the pressure would be 4.32 + (.432 X 4) or 6.048 . As you use water in the tank, the pressure will decrease but water will still flow, you will still be able to bathe, flush, cook and wash. The diameter of the tank has nothing to do with the pressure. The pressure is strictly a matter of the height of the water column

[RonE]

Jim,

As long as the unpressurized water source is above the highest water tap you will have sufficient water for emergencies. So long as the bottom of your water tank is above the top of your water heater, the water heater will fill, the toilet will fill and the taps will run. The shower may not have the pressure you know and love but it will have some flow and the hot water will work. Fresh water has a gauge pressure of .432 psi per foot of water column. If you have a ten foot tall tank that has ten feet of water in it the pressure at the bottom of the tank will be 4.32 psi. now if the bottom of the tank is a foot above the shower head, the pressure at the shower will be 4.752 and at a tap that is three feet lower than the shower head, the pressure would be 4.32 + (.432 X 4) or 6.048 . As you use water in the tank, the pressure will decrease but water will still flow, you will still be able to bathe, flush, cook and wash. The diameter of the tank has nothing to do with the pressure. The pressure is strictly a matter of the height of the water column

Now, you will also have to plumb in an overflow for your rainwater collection tank in the event that it rains beyond the capacity of your tank.

[assateague]

That's info I can use. Should go with 55 gallon diameter stacked rather than a big tub. Good.

[waterfowlman]

That's info I can use. Should go with 55 gallon diameter stacked rather than a big tub. Good.

Forget all of this good advice the fellas have given you......you're just gonna end up doing it the Amish way anyhow.

[vincentpa]

62.4 pcf x h (ft) = pressure (psf) / 144 = pressure (psi)

[Bulldog0156]

Need more head!!!

[assateague]

How would I keep it from freezing in the winter and blowing a hole in the sides?

[assateague]

That's info I can use. Should go with 55 gallon diameter stacked rather than a big tub. Good.

Forget all of this good advice the fellas have given you......you're just gonna end up doing it the Amish way anyhow.

Not sure if I can sell the wife on the water tower idea. If I do it, I will most assuredly paint "NOBODY LISTENS TO JIM, POP. 1" on the side of that bitch, though.

[waterfowlman]

How would I keep it from freezing in the winter and blowing a hole in the sides?

Now you're gonna need to add a bubble system!