School Venting Begins

[assateague]

You never have to add anything over 10, though. That's the beauty of it. But they've managed to fuck it up, by somehow implying that you need to "add" 30 and 40, then add a few more to solve 32+44. When really all you have to do is add 2+4 and 3+4, then read the fucking number you wrote under the line. But no. Let's make it as silly as possible.

[The Duck Hammer]

Holy shit, did you read that? The part where they explain how to add 8+5 is absolutely, 100%, certifiable batshit crazy.

I hate to say it, but I get it. Not saying it's the best method to teach young children, but I understand what they are trying to accomplish. It is basically teaching Base 10 in it's most rudimentary form and from what I see, basically trying to teach things the way kids think. I would imagine the line of thinking is that most kids can count to ten pretty easily, so addition and subtraction of anything that totals 10 (or under) becomes pretty easy for them. So basically, the whole goal for them is to get kids to understand that once they can add up to the nearest ten, all they need to add is what remains. Seems like a lot more thinking than is needed to me though.

How do you get it? You have to do subtraction to do addition. Why don't they brake down the damn subtraction if addition is so fucking hard? They are just over complicating things and slowing kids down with nonsense.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

[sws002]

Holy shit, did you read that? The part where they explain how to add 8+5 is absolutely, 100%, certifiable batshit crazy.

I hate to say it, but I get it. Not saying it's the best method to teach young children, but I understand what they are trying to accomplish. It is basically teaching Base 10 in it's most rudimentary form and from what I see, basically trying to teach things the way kids think. I would imagine the line of thinking is that most kids can count to ten pretty easily, so addition and subtraction of anything that totals 10 (or under) becomes pretty easy for them. So basically, the whole goal for them is to get kids to understand that once they can add up to the nearest ten, all they need to add is what remains. Seems like a lot more thinking than is needed to me though.

How do you get it? You have to do subtraction to do addition. Why don't they brake down the damn subtraction if addition is so fucking hard? They are just over complicating things and slowing kids down with nonsense.

Sent from my Vox Mortem

You're missing the point. You are thinking about it as what it looks like to you. Kids don't see it as addition and subtraction. Think of it more as a word problem, kind of a "If I have 5 of something and you take 2, how many are left?". They usually have pretty firm grasp of something like that. Once again, I'm not saying it's the best method, but I think we tend to overcomplicate it as well, because we already know what we're doing.

[The Duck Hammer]

That makes sense. Still seems like it will cause setbacks down the road. Hard to break habits learned early.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

[sws002]

That makes sense. Still seems like it will cause setbacks down the road. Hard to break habits learned early.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

This is very true, I think most methods they have come up with recently are bullshit. You want to increase math scores? Take away fucking calculators until they hit Geometry. I get so sick of kids who can't calculate a fraction or even sales tax without a calculator to save their fucking lives.

[The Duck Hammer]

I agree with that. That's how I learned no calculator till high school.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

[sws002]

I agree with that. That's how I learned no calculator till high school.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

It astounds me how many people are amazed that I can usually figure out within a buck or two what their total will be after sales tax. It gets really fun when we have tax free days with a 10% discounts for new cards. People have the hardest fucking time figuring out how much they are gonna pay out the door. The funny part is, if something is tax free, guess what you pay? If you answered sticker price, you are not a moron. Now subtract 10%. Boom, out the door price, it's fucking magic! What I usually fail to explain to them (for good reason), is that you actually pay LESS than that, because we can't actually just sell something tax free, so what ACTUALLY happens is the sticker price is reduced by the tax percentage, and you are then taxed on the new, lower price, so buying something "tax free", means you actually pay just a little bit under sticker price.

For those whose minds just imploded: $100 - 7% = $93, but $93 + 7% = $99.51

[The Duck Hammer]

Yea people astound me with their stupidity sometimes.


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[jehler]

A kid that uses that method should probably wear a helmet around.

believe it or not that's real close to how I do math in my head. Wasn't taught that way, just what happens when I think. The thought of them teaching kids what happens in my borderline stable, drug rattled brain cage is frankly a little scary, I have a hard time holding a though long enough to finish it...

Is this the new ADHD method of math?

[(MT)Montanafowler]

That makes sense. Still seems like it will cause setbacks down the road. Hard to break habits learned early.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

This is very true, I think most methods they have come up with recently are bullshit. You want to increase math scores? Take away fucking calculators until they hit Geometry. I get so sick of kids who can't calculate a fraction or even sales tax without a calculator to save their fucking lives.

truth be told, I can't calculate a fraction or sales tax without a calculator either. They really push calculator skills these days.

But i also really suck at math.

[jehler]

That makes sense. Still seems like it will cause setbacks down the road. Hard to break habits learned early.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

This is very true, I think most methods they have come up with recently are bullshit. You want to increase math scores? Take away fucking calculators until they hit Geometry. I get so sick of kids who can't calculate a fraction or even sales tax without a calculator to save their fucking lives.

truth be told, I can't calculate a fraction or sales tax without a calculator either. They really push calculator skills these days.

But i also really suck at math.

have you tried making tens?

[(MT)Montanafowler]

That makes sense. Still seems like it will cause setbacks down the road. Hard to break habits learned early.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

This is very true, I think most methods they have come up with recently are bullshit. You want to increase math scores? Take away fucking calculators until they hit Geometry. I get so sick of kids who can't calculate a fraction or even sales tax without a calculator to save their fucking lives.

truth be told, I can't calculate a fraction or sales tax without a calculator either. They really push calculator skills these days.

But i also really suck at math.

have you tried making tens?

tens are for pussies, it's all about the Benjamins!

[Woody]

Assa, your posts like these... make me want to have kids less. This world is just not a good place to bring up children these days.

[assateague]

We consider it a challenge. Also, despite the aggravation that we encounter daily, it's nice to know that with very little effort, your kids can be head and shoulders above others, in life skills if not academics. Which will serve them very well in the future, at least for now. The bad part is that I see the touchy feely "performance is nothing, image is everything" mentality in the real/business world more and more as well. My kids understand that life is not fair, and that they better bust their ass and not put feelings over outcomes, which, for better or worse, is the way they're gonna be brought up. I'm only half joking when I say they're being raised to either rule the world or just give the world the finger and go do their own thing. Either one would make me equally happy.

[rozzo842]

Tonight's homework

What's a fact family and what does it have to do with math?

uploadfromtaptalk1378846704525.jpg

[assateague]

So, so glad it's not just me. Heaven forbid they understand that 4, 1, 5, and 0 need to be in that "family portrait" as well. Talk about wasting time. Just put the damn chart up, and give them practice, practice, practice. Makes me sick.

[one2many]

so 2+2 no longer = 4???? what the hell is the family portrait in math??
God i feel dumber each and every day

[Mornin Beef]

so 2+2 no longer = 4???? what the hell is the family portrait in math??
God i feel dumber each and every day

I always thought it would be a great learning tool if you answered 2+2=4 but since you got it right you add a bonus pt equallying it to 5. That's the world I want to live in. The teacher would have to get to know the student first, I understand, but bonus points are how you rack up the big bucks in real life.

[cannon]

My youngest, who is in 4th grade, just got detention. I'm aware of said punishment, because her teacher sent a condescending note home explaining the fact of detention and how it was my fault. Apparently, if I fail to note the existence of something in her backpack that alludes to homework, she gets a "conduct mark", detention, and a failing grade for the assignment.

I was required to sign & return the note, to which I responded with a note of my own, inquiring as to whether criminal charges and/or jail time was being considered.

Whatever happened to just getting a failing mark and that being the end of it?

[NuffDaddy]

Someone makes money to come up with this shit...

It's not just elementary school either. College calculus and they still try to jam dumbass "tricks" to do things "faster" when all it does is complicate things worse.

[Flightstopper]

To shed light on the intelligence of some of these teachers. I donated a home theater projection screen to the school my wife teaches at for an auction. I thought great help these kids in a bad part of town to help with fundraising. Nope, this is for the teachers and amin to bid on. The money is then used solely to buy the teachers gifts and lunches at inservice days with their own damn money. Wtf?!

[The Duck Hammer]

It's not just elementary school either. College calculus and they still try to jam dumbass "tricks" to do things "faster" when all it does is complicate things worse.

In all reality there are tricks that do help in higher level math and science classes. Some of the methods are a load of bullshit but most can be tweaked slightly by eliminating a few pointless steps and will be helpful if you take the time to simplify them.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

[NuffDaddy]

It's not just elementary school either. College calculus and they still try to jam dumbass "tricks" to do things "faster" when all it does is complicate things worse.

In all reality there are tricks that do help in higher level math and science classes. Some of the methods are a load of bullshit but most can be tweaked slightly by eliminating a few pointless steps and will be helpful if you take the time to simplify them.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

Yes, there are definitely lots of shortcuts in math. But I've been showed some tricks by professors that even take them longer than just going through the standard process. There is also the other side where they show you the long way, then a week later they show you a shortcut that takes half the time and thought.

[The Duck Hammer]

It's not just elementary school either. College calculus and they still try to jam dumbass "tricks" to do things "faster" when all it does is complicate things worse.

In all reality there are tricks that do help in higher level math and science classes. Some of the methods are a load of bullshit but most can be tweaked slightly by eliminating a few pointless steps and will be helpful if you take the time to simplify them.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

Yes, there are definitely lots of shortcuts in math. But I've been showed some tricks by professors that even take them longer than just going through the standard process. There is also the other side where they show you the long way, then a week later they show you a shortcut that takes half the time and thought.

I know what you mean. Or even better the ones who show you the shortcuts but want you to work everything out longhand omitting nothing.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

[assateague]

I agree that shortcuts help a ton. I also believe that most people "put together" their own version of what works best, and this only comes through a good, sound knowledge of the fundamentals. Trying to teach patterns of learning when WHAT is being learned is not understood is just stupid. It's like trying to teach someone the pattern of a competition routine when they don't even understand how to make a quack, or what a quack is used for. Yes, there is a time and place for patterns/shortcuts/personal solutions, but that only comes after you know what the eff you're doing.

Like Jehler said, he does use some sort of method similar to what they're teaching. But I don't. I've never "made tens", maybe because it just doesn't make it any quicker or easier for me. My time as a teacher and instructor taught me that there are many different methods for doing something, and as many little "tweaks" to those as there are people who use them. But that doesn't matter, because the end outcome is what's important. When it DOES matter is when those little patterns have become more important than the outcome, which certainly appears to be the case here.

[The Duck Hammer]

I agree with you 100%. That's why I said higher level classes.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

[assateague]

Agreed. Heck, I'd even be ok with it if they were showing it to students, as sort of a "hey, check this out, it might be helpful for you". But giving it importance over the actual solving of addition problems is stupid, and elevating it to a learning point, rather than a suggestion chaps my ass.

[sws002]

There is also the other side where they show you the long way, then a week later they show you a shortcut that takes half the time and thought.

This. Ever tried doing derivation and integration long-hand? No fucking way I want to ever do that shit again. I'll take the shortcut, thank you very much.

[bill herian]

Learning addition, subtraction, and multiplication of single digits should be like learning a new word, you repeat it over and over until you no longer work through the letters to get the answer, your brain just recognizes it and fills it in. There's no need to bog the student down with what the numbers are doing, when you read 4+4, or 4x4, the answer should be pulled from memory, if it isn't, more repetition is needed. That's why those timed tables with all the basic problems on them work. And what's better, you can easily measure improvement with them, making the student more confident.

I was never a mathlete in school but I see what they are teaching in introductory math courses at the four year university I attend. God help us all. I was eons ahead of these kids when I was a freshman.

[Woody]

It's not just elementary school either. College calculus and they still try to jam dumbass "tricks" to do things "faster" when all it does is complicate things worse.

In all reality there are tricks that do help in higher level math and science classes. Some of the methods are a load of bullshit but most can be tweaked slightly by eliminating a few pointless steps and will be helpful if you take the time to simplify them.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

There is also the other side where they show you the long way, then a week later they show you a shortcut that takes half the time and thought.

This. Ever tried doing derivation and integration long-hand? No fucking way I want to ever do that shit again. I'll take the shortcut, thank you very much.

I can’t even remember how to do derivatives/integrals the "right way"

I remember an h being involved.