Moderator: Darren
Duck Engr wrote:Mallard counts are significantly down from 10 year average from Louisiana all the way to Iowa. I can’t find data for any states farther north, so they may all be up there. Afraid this season has likely shown us what it is, as the old timers all tell me if they aren’t here by Christmas they ain’t coming. But, if the old timers have that knowledge, then that tells me there have been previous years where they “didn’t come”.
Duck Engr wrote:Listened to a wildlife biologist, can’t recall his name, on “the standard sportsman” podcast that suspects we’re significantly over counting breeding pairs, and laid out his reasoning why. Mallard counts are significantly down from 10 year average from Louisiana all the way to Iowa. I can’t find data for any states farther north, so they may all be up there. Afraid this season has likely shown us what it is, as the old timers all tell me if they aren’t here by Christmas they ain’t coming. But, if the old timers have that knowledge, then that tells me there have been previous years where they “didn’t come”.
Duck Engr wrote:Yep that’s the one. Dave Rave is the fellas name. Thanks DC!
5 stand wrote:I tried to listen to it, but in the first 20 minutes they get to wrapped up in Mallard hens, and they lost me... If shooting hens was an issue, in my mind, why do we shoot green winged teal hens, why do we shoot gadwall hens? We've been shooting those for so long there shouldn't be any gadwall or teal left?
I know this is nitpicking, but if you're serious about getting waterfowlers on board, cut the time down, hit the high points, have your ducks in a row with some good numbers, not speculation or memory.... Dang it I bet that reads bad, sorry guys... Hopefully others have a longer attention span then I do...
Rick wrote:5 stand wrote:I tried to listen to it, but in the first 20 minutes they get to wrapped up in Mallard hens, and they lost me... If shooting hens was an issue, in my mind, why do we shoot green winged teal hens, why do we shoot gadwall hens? We've been shooting those for so long there shouldn't be any gadwall or teal left?
I know this is nitpicking, but if you're serious about getting waterfowlers on board, cut the time down, hit the high points, have your ducks in a row with some good numbers, not speculation or memory.... Dang it I bet that reads bad, sorry guys... Hopefully others have a longer attention span then I do...
I was long of similar bent, but getting involved in Paul Link's Coastal Mallard study efforts changed my mind. When our first two mallard captures ran 15 and 16 to 1, drakes to hens with no immatures in those samples, I found myself taking the old "dead hens don't lay eggs." - or lead their young to Louisiana - saw more seriously. Gadwall almost never show up under the rocket nets, but if the green-wing teal have shown anything remotely approaching those disparities to date, I've somehow missed it in the huge samplings of those I've been party to.
So I believe it a mistake to take not just a "ducks is ducks" approach to management, but the "mallards are mallards" approach the USFWS has so long adhered to. Not going to condemn anyone for shooting Susies as long as it's legal, but I try not to and encourage my hunter to "Shoot the bright ones."
This is good discourse and what I think hunters should be engaging in.5 stand wrote:Rick wrote:5 stand wrote:I tried to listen to it, but in the first 20 minutes they get to wrapped up in Mallard hens, and they lost me... If shooting hens was an issue, in my mind, why do we shoot green winged teal hens, why do we shoot gadwall hens? We've been shooting those for so long there shouldn't be any gadwall or teal left?
I know this is nitpicking, but if you're serious about getting waterfowlers on board, cut the time down, hit the high points, have your ducks in a row with some good numbers, not speculation or memory.... Dang it I bet that reads bad, sorry guys... Hopefully others have a longer attention span then I do...
I was long of similar bent, but getting involved in Paul Link's Coastal Mallard study efforts changed my mind. When our first two mallard captures ran 15 and 16 to 1, drakes to hens with no immatures in those samples, I found myself taking the old "dead hens don't lay eggs." - or lead their young to Louisiana - saw more seriously. Gadwall almost never show up under the rocket nets, but if the green-wing teal have shown anything remotely approaching those disparities to date, I've somehow missed it in the huge samplings of those I've been party to.
So I believe it a mistake to take not just a "ducks is ducks" approach to management, but the "mallards are mallards" approach the USFWS has so long adhered to. Not going to condemn anyone for shooting Susies as long as it's legal, but I try not to and encourage my hunter to "Shoot the bright ones."
I understand Rick, I see that Drake to hen ratio in my binoculars(weekly)... I can guarantee you it's easier to shoot all green, then it would be if I could kill 5 Mallard hens... I also shoot the flashy ducks (just like you encourage)... Probably was just in the wrong mindset to listen to a hour and some change of the podcast... Glad you were able to hang in there... Hope that's the fix (no more hens)...
I mentioned it earlier this year about (South Dakota) drain tile, they put it in the fall, and I get to see the spider web fields every year... I'm a habitat guy, I believe that would fix most of our woes... but I doubt more and better habitat is in our future? Sorry about being a Debbie Downer, and Darren you're the moderator, feel free to hit that delete button buddy...
Duck Engr wrote:I’d be very interested to know the mortality distribution of transmittered birds. How many lost to hunting, predators while nesting, the elements (bad storm, late freeze, etc).
Rick wrote:5 stand wrote:I tried to listen to it, but in the first 20 minutes they get to wrapped up in Mallard hens, and they lost me... If shooting hens was an issue, in my mind, why do we shoot green winged teal hens, why do we shoot gadwall hens? We've been shooting those for so long there shouldn't be any gadwall or teal left?
I know this is nitpicking, but if you're serious about getting waterfowlers on board, cut the time down, hit the high points, have your ducks in a row with some good numbers, not speculation or memory.... Dang it I bet that reads bad, sorry guys... Hopefully others have a longer attention span then I do...
I was long of similar bent, but getting involved in Paul Link's Coastal Mallard study efforts changed my mind. When our first two mallard captures ran 15 and 16 to 1, drakes to hens with no immatures in those samples, I found myself taking the old "dead hens don't lay eggs." - or lead their young to Louisiana - saw more seriously. Gadwall almost never show up under the rocket nets, but if the green-wing teal have shown anything remotely approaching those disparities to date, I've somehow missed it in the huge samplings of those I've been party to.
So I believe it a mistake to take not just a "ducks is ducks" approach to management, but the "mallards are mallards" approach the USFWS has so long adhered to. Not going to condemn anyone for shooting Susies as long as it's legal, but I now try not to and encourage my hunter to "Shoot the bright ones."
5 stand wrote:I tried to listen to it, but in the first 20 minutes they get to wrapped up in Mallard hens, and they lost me... If shooting hens was an issue, in my mind, why do we shoot green winged teal hens, why do we shoot gadwall hens? We've been shooting those for so long there shouldn't be any gadwall or teal left?
I know this is nitpicking, but if you're serious about getting waterfowlers on board, cut the time down, hit the high points, have your ducks in a row with some good numbers, not speculation or memory.... Dang it I bet that reads bad, sorry guys... Hopefully others have a longer attention span then I do...
DComeaux wrote:5 stand wrote:I tried to listen to it, but in the first 20 minutes they get to wrapped up in Mallard hens, and they lost me... If shooting hens was an issue, in my mind, why do we shoot green winged teal hens, why do we shoot gadwall hens? We've been shooting those for so long there shouldn't be any gadwall or teal left?
I know this is nitpicking, but if you're serious about getting waterfowlers on board, cut the time down, hit the high points, have your ducks in a row with some good numbers, not speculation or memory.... Dang it I bet that reads bad, sorry guys... Hopefully others have a longer attention span then I do...
You can drag the recording forward and past the "nitpicking".
Rick wrote:When our first two mallard captures ran 15 and 16 to 1, drakes to hens with no immatures in those samples, I found myself taking the old "dead hens don't lay eggs." - or lead their young to Louisiana - saw more seriously.
Rick wrote:I'm among those strongly suspecting that a great many Louisiana mallards were of a photo period migrating subset that's been whittled down to the nub by a number of factors
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